OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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I'd like to say one thing - it will probably turn out to be more - but can we put back the "light" in infantry?
Since we're on the subject of SMGs....
The U.S. Army Selects New Submachine Gun
The Swiss-made Brugger and Thomet APC9K is the Army’s first official subgun since World War II.
The U.S. Army has officially selected the Brugger and Thomet APC9K to outfit its Personal Security Details.
The APC9K is the first new submachine gun for the U.S. Army since the M3 “Greasegun” of World War II. The service will buy 350 of the compact automatic weapons for $2.5 million, with an option to buy 1,000 more. The B&T APC9K beat out guns from more than ten other companies, including Colt and Heckler and Koch, as well as guns based on the M-16 and MP-5 weapons platforms.
The APC9K is an entirely new submachine gun developed in conjunction with and for EKO Cobra, Austria’s counterterrorism unit. The gun uses a closed-bolt blowback system, has a maximum rate of fire of 1,080 rounds per minute, and weighs just 5.9 pounds with 30-round magazine, foregrip, and Aimpoint micro red dot aiming sight. It’s chambered in 9-millimeter Parabellum and comes standard with two 30-round translucent magazines.
The U.S. Army Just Chose Its First New Submachine Gun Since WWII
The Swiss-made Brugger and Thomet APC9K is the Army’s first official subgun since World War II.www.popularmechanics.com
I would not change anything, because it would be a waste of time, unless this new party came in with a very strong mandate and could hold power for at least 2 full terms, nothing would happen.
First term would 2 of the 5 years to write the white paper, the next 2 years would eat up the time to put into action with funding, golden parachutes for those who want to leave before the big changes comes on the civilian side of the table. At the same time there would be the great influx of retirements of soldiers who no longer had commands or jobs, after reading the white paper. It would take 1 to 3 years to close any unneeded bases ( Toronto was a base on the Friday but slated for closure the next week, took 3 years to close it, only to keep part of it open).
Then a general election is called, other parties would bring the record of bases closing, troops being down sized and how this is bad for Canada and how it is bad for the tax payer. If the party won the election and could continue the plan to down size and de militarize the army, then the actual plan would start coming in and by the time the plan was at phase 1 , there would be another election and new government because it is the new reality our governments do not go much beyond 2 terms.
Then the new government plans comes into being and re do the whole show over
The entire program was rife with stupidity. The M4A1 was "too long" (read not cool enough) - and they refused to look at the 10.3" Mk18 upper that SOCOM uses - as it was still too long, nor would they accept the addition of the Law Tactical Folder (which has NSN 1005-01-672-4614) which SOCOM and the US Army already uses on M4, M18, and M110's.1080 rounds per minute
18 rounds per second
30 rounds per magazine
1.666 seconds per magazine
120 paces per minute
2 paces per second
Left-Right-Left...Change Mags!
I warned you didn't I?I'd like to say one thing - it will probably turn out to be more - but can we put back the "light" in infantry?
I used to think I was hard done by when I had to strap a 25/77 set to my rucksack for the two or three kilometres I had to hike when dismounted from my M113. All my gear inclusive of the C1 I carried as a FOO (I carried the C1 in the belief that I wouldn't look like a FOO to the pretend Commies) must have come in at around fifty pounds tops.I warned you didn't I?
I have said this before BUT I want to reiterate it. Every time a replacement ruck/web gear or what ever was issued some brain thought that meant "the soldiers can carry more equipment" with zero thought given to the weight and its displacement.
In procurement? Why gee golly, I'll be damned...with zero thought to the actual operational requirements of a weapon system.
I'd like to say one thing - it will probably turn out to be more - but can we put back the "light" in infantry?
I warned you didn't I?
I have said this before BUT I want to reiterate it. Every time a replacement ruck/web gear or what ever was issued some brain thought that meant "the soldiers can carry more equipment" with zero thought given to the weight and its displacement.
I had posted the US Army load carriage study here several years ago - there was also an informal one done by 1 and 3 VP to solider load @MJP and some others will probably remember.I used to think I was hard done by when I had to strap a 25/77 set to my rucksack for the two or three kilometres I had to hike when dismounted from my M113. All my gear inclusive of the C1 I carried as a FOO (I carried the C1 in the belief that I wouldn't look like a FOO to the pretend Commies) must have come in at around fifty pounds tops.
I can't even imagine what it was like for the guys in the sandbox. A 100 lbs+ in 40 to 50 degrees C+
Yes - I can attest to the idea that there were fools who thought that making a soldier carry a 120 pound ruck was the way to go. All it did was injure backs, knees, ankles, ligaments, tendons etc .The take away was Light Infantry meant you carry a heavy load and become combat ineffective. For those who where on course shortly after the Bravo Two Zero was released - the BS number put out by "Andy McNab" Steve Mitchell on both the weight of their packs and the distance they traveled with them inspired a lot of CF NCO's and Officers (at least in the PPCLI) to see how much weight would physically crush a soldier.
**News flash a '64 pattern jump ruck can indeed be loaded well over 180lbs, I say that from personal experience.
The "Iron Man" suit and several autonomous Mule vehicles and drone supply systems came about from the early loads dismounted forces where carrying early in Afghanistan and Iraq. About the same time we also seemed to have learned that troops can be rotated even from SR missions, and endurance on the same can be extended via Helo resupply (and GPS Parachute delivery) rather than making folks carry insane amount of gear.
A great way to force lots of good soldiers out of the army before they even go on operations.Yes - I can attest to the idea that there were fools who thought that making a soldier carry a 120 pound ruck was the way to go. All it did was injure backs, knees, ankles, ligaments, tendons etc .
Don't forget PER points for being aA great way to force lots of good soldiers out of the army before they even go on operations.
A great way to force lots of good soldiers out of the army before they even go on operations.
Funny thing about those 77s. They must have been jet propelled.
I remember working in syndicates at Gagetown. The guy in the rear without the gear was always lagging back and falling off the interval. No amount of cajoling would make him keep up.
Next leg he turns into the syndicate leader. Now he gets the radio. All of a sudden he is legging it as if he is on a cross country race and nobody can keep up with him, despite the extra 15lbs on his back.
2-7. INDIVIDUAL LOAD
To prevent an individual load from hindering a marching soldier’s mobility and combat readiness, commanders must reduce the carried load to the minimum mission-essential and survival equipment.
a. The individual’s combat load is that mission-essential equipment as determined by the commander, which is required for the soldier to fight and survive immediate combat operations. The load can be divided into an approach march load and fighting load. The fighting load should not exceed 48 pounds, and the approach march load (which includes the fighting load) should be less than 72 pounds, based upon individual abilities.
CANSOFCOM | ||
427 SOAS | ||
CFJIRU | ||
JTF 2 | ||
CSOR | ||
1 RCR (SOC) | ||
1 Cdn Div | ||
HQ & Sigs Regt | ||
1 CMBG | 2 CMBG (CCSB) | 5e GBMC |
HQ & Sigs Sqn | HQ & Sigs Sqn | HQ & Sigs Sqn |
Service Gp | Service Gp | Service Gp |
408 TacHel | 450 TacHel | 430 TacHel |
1 RCHA | 2 RCHA (AD) | 5e RLAC |
LdSH(RC) | 4 RCA (GS) | 12e RBC |
1 PPCLI | RCD | 1 R22eR |
2 PPCLI | 21 EWR | 2 R22eR |
2 RCR | 3 RCR |
CANR | ||||||||||||||||||||||
1 Cdn Air Div | ||||||||||||||||||||||
4 Ftr Wing | 19 ISR Wing | 3 Ftr Wing | ||||||||||||||||||||
8Tpt Wing | ||||||||||||||||||||||
JTF(N) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
4 GBD Sqns | ||||||||||||||||||||||
440 Sqn | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Cdn Rangers | ||||||||||||||||||||||
1 CRPG | 2 CRPG | 3 CRPG | 4 CRPG | 5 CRPG | ||||||||||||||||||
JRCC Victoria |
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JTF(Pac) | JTF(W) | JTF(C) | JTF(E) | JTF(Atl) | ||||||||||||||||||
3 GBD Sqns | 3 GBD Sqns | 3 GBD Sqns | 3 GBD Sqns | 3 GBD Sqns | ||||||||||||||||||
435 Sqn | 417 Sqn | 424 Sqn | 439 Sqn | 413 Sqn | ||||||||||||||||||
442 Sqn | 444/130 Sqn | |||||||||||||||||||||
TDG 01 | TDG 02 | TDG 03 | TDG 04 | TDG 05 | TDG 06 | TDG 07 | TDG 08 | TDG 09 | ||||||||||||||
HQ | HQ | HQ | HQ | HQ | HQ | HQ | HQ | HQ | ||||||||||||||
Comms | Comms | Comms | Comms | Comms | Comms | Comms | Comms | Comms | ||||||||||||||
Svc | Svc | Svc | Svc | Svc | Svc | Svc | Svc | Svc | ||||||||||||||
Eng | Eng | Eng | Eng | Eng | Eng | Eng | Eng | Eng | ||||||||||||||
5 Fd RCA | 20 Ind RCA | 116 Ind RCA | 56 Fd RCA | 7 Fd RCA | 30 Fd RCA | 2 Fd RCA | 62 Fd RCA | 1 Fd RCA | ||||||||||||||
15 Fd RCA | 20 Fd RCA | 10 Fd RCA | 11 Fd RCA | 49 Fd RCA | 42 Fd RCA | RCH | 6 Fd RCA | 3 Fd RCA | ||||||||||||||
BCD | SALH | 26 Fd RCA | 1H | QYR | OntR | RdHull | SherH | 8 CH | ||||||||||||||
BCR | KOCR | FGH | WindsorR | GGHG | GGFG | CGG | 12RBC(M) | PEIR | ||||||||||||||
CanScot | CalgH | SaskD | E&Kscot | RHFofC | CHofO | RMtlR | Voltigeurs | Hfx Rfls | ||||||||||||||
SHofC | LER | RRR | 4 RCR | QORofC | SD&GH | RHRofC | RChaud | PLFus | ||||||||||||||
RWmR | RWpgR | Elgins | RRofC | BrockR | FusMR | RSag | WNSR | |||||||||||||||
RMtnR | QOCHofC | G&SFor | TorScot | PWOR | RMais | FusSher | CBH | |||||||||||||||
LSSR | RHLI | LorneScot | AlgR | 4 R22R | 6 R22R | RNBR | ||||||||||||||||
A&SHofC | H&PER | IrRofC | NorthShore | |||||||||||||||||||
L&WR | RNfldR | |||||||||||||||||||||
CJOC | ||||||||||||||||||
JTF-N | ||||||||||||||||||
JTF-P | JTF-W | JTF-C | JTF-E | JTF-A | ||||||||||||||
1 Div | ||||||||||||||||||
1 Wing | ||||||||||||||||||
400 Sqn | ||||||||||||||||||
403 Sqn | ||||||||||||||||||
408 Sqn | 438 Sqn | 430 Sqn | ||||||||||||||||
CH-146 | CH-146 | CH-146 | ||||||||||||||||
450 Sqn | ||||||||||||||||||
CH-147 | ||||||||||||||||||
6 CSB | ||||||||||||||||||
HQ | ||||||||||||||||||
CAIR | ||||||||||||||||||
6 Int Coy | 2 Int Coy | 7 Int Coy | 4 Int Coy | 3 Int Coy | ||||||||||||||
IATF | ||||||||||||||||||
21 EWR | ||||||||||||||||||
4 ADR | ||||||||||||||||||
4 ESR | ||||||||||||||||||
1 (Siege) Bde | ||||||||||||||||||
HQ &Sigs Sqn | ||||||||||||||||||
1 Svc Bn | ||||||||||||||||||
1 CER | ||||||||||||||||||
1 RCHA | ||||||||||||||||||
LdSH(RC) | ||||||||||||||||||
1 PPCLI | 2 PPCLI | 3 PPCLI | ||||||||||||||||
2 (Light) Bde | 5 (Light) Bde | |||||||||||||||||
HQ &Sigs Sqn | HQ &Sigs Sqn | |||||||||||||||||
2 Svc Bn | 5 Svc Bn | |||||||||||||||||
2 CER | 5 CER | |||||||||||||||||
2 RCHA | 5 RALC | |||||||||||||||||
RCD | 12e RBC | |||||||||||||||||
1 RCR | 2 RCR | 1 R22eR | 2 R22eR | |||||||||||||||
3 RCR | 3 R22eR | |||||||||||||||||
3 Div | 4 Div | 2 Div | 5 Div | |||||||||||||||
3 DSG | 4 DSG | 2 DSG | 5 DSG | |||||||||||||||
3 DTC | 4 DTC | 2 DTC | 5 DTC | |||||||||||||||
ARCG | ARCG | ARCG | ARCG | |||||||||||||||
39 (Garrison) Bde | 41 (Garrison) Bde | 38 (Garrison) Bde | 31 (Garrison) Bde | 32 (Garrison) Bde | 33 (Garrison) Bde | 34 (Garrison) Bde | 35 (Garrison) Bde | 36 (Garrison) Bde | 37 (Garrison) Bde | |||||||||
Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | Bde HQ | |||||||||
Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | Sigs Rgt | |||||||||
Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | Svc Bn | |||||||||
Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | Tpt Bn | |||||||||
Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | Engr Rgt | |||||||||
RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | RRCA | |||||||||
RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | RCAC | |||||||||
RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | RCIC | |||||||||
4 CRPG | 3 CRPG | 1 CRPG | 2 CRPG | 5 CRPG | ||||||||||||||
11th Airborne Division "Arctic Angels"
- Headquarters and Headquarters Battalion
- Headquarters and Support Company (Division)
- Signal Intelligence and Sustainment Company (Division)
- Northern Warfare Training Center
- Non-Commissioned Officer's Academy
- 1st Infantry Brigade Combat Team "Arctic Wolves" located at Fort Wainwright, Alaska
- Headquarters and Headquarters Company "Dire Wolves"
- 5th Squadron, 1st Cavalry Regiment, Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition "Blackhawk"
- 1st Battalion, 5th Infantry Regiment "Bobcat"
- 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment "Legion"
- 2nd Battalion, 8th Field Artillery Regiment "Automatic"
- 70th Brigade Engineer Battalion "Kodiak"
- 25th Brigade Support Battalion "Opahey"
- 2nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne) "Spartans" located at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska
- Headquarters and Headquarters Company
- 1st Squadron, 40th Cavalry Regiment "Denali"
- 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment "Geronimo"
- 3rd Battalion, 509th Infantry Regiment "Stand in the Door"
- 2nd Battalion, 377th Field Artillery Regiment "Spartan Steel"
- 6th Brigade Engineer Battalion "Oak"
- 725th Brigade Support Battalion "Centurion"
- Arctic Aviation Command located at Fort Wainwright, Alaska
- Headquarters and Headquarters Company
- 1st Battalion, 25th Aviation Regiment (Attack Reconnaissance) "Artic Attack"
- 1st Battalion, 52nd Aviation Regiment (General Support) "Flying Dragons"
- 17th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion "Always Ready" located at Fort Wainwright, Alaska and Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska
2nd Canadian Division
- Headquarters and Headquarters Battalion
- Headquarters and Support Company (Division)
- Signal Intelligence and Sustainment Company (Division)
- Northern Warfare Training Center
- Non-Commissioned Officer's Academy
- 2nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team located at Petawawa
- Headquarters and Sigs Sqn
- 3 RCR Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition and Strike
- 1 RCR Infantry
- 2 RCR Infantry
- 2 CER
- 2 Svc Bn
- 5 Infantry Brigade Combat Team located at Valcartier
- Headquarters and Sigs Sqn
- 3 R22eR Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition and Strike
- 1 R22eR Infantry
- 2 R22eR Infantry
2nd Battalion, 377th Field Artillery Regiment "Spartan Steel"- 5 CER
- 5 Svc Bn
- 1 Wing located at Kingston
Headquarters and Headquarters Company1st Battalion, 25th Aviation Regiment (Attack Reconnaissance) "Artic Attack"1st Battalion, 52nd Aviation Regiment (General Support) "Flying Dragons"- 17th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion TBD
Divisional Headquarters
5th Canadian Armoured Brigade
3rd Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment (The Governor General's Horse Guards)
11th Canadian Infantry Brigade
2nd Armoured Regiment (Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians)) 5th Armoured Regiment (8th Princess Louise's (New Brunswick) Hussars) 9th Armoured Regiment (The British Columbia Dragoons) The Westminster Regiment (Motor)
11th Independent Machine Gun Company (The Princess Louise Fusiliers) The Perth Regiment The Cape Breton Highlanders The Irish Regiment of Canada 11th Infantry Brigade Ground Defence Platoon (Lorne Scots)Headquarters, Fifth Divisional Artillery, RCA
17 RCA
37th Field Battery 60th Field Battery 76th Field Battery8 RCA
61st Field Battery (Self Propelled) 107th Field Battery (Self Propelled) 45th Field Battery (Self Propelled)4 RCA
5 RCA
98th Anti-Tank Battery 49th Anti-Tank Battery 82nd Anti-Tank Battery 16th Anti-Tank Battery
41st Light Anti-Aircraft Battery 47th Light Anti-Aircraft Battery 88th Light Anti-Aircraft BatteryRCE
Headquarters RCE
4th Field Park Squadron, RCE 1st Field Squadron, RCE 10th Field Squadron, RCE One bridge troopRCCS
Fifth Armoured Divisional Signals, RCCSRCASC
Headquarters RCASC
5th Armoured Brigade Company, RCASC 11th Infantry Brigade Company, RCASC Fifth Armoured Divisional Troops Company, RCASC Fifth Armoured Division Transport Company, RCASCRCAMC
No. 7 Light Field Ambulance, RCAMC No. 24 Field Ambulance, RCAMC No. 12 Field Hygiene Section, RCAMC No. 13 Field dressing stationRCOC
No. 5 Armoured Division Ordnance Field Park, RCOCRCEME
Headquarters RCEME
5th Armoured Brigade Workshop, RCEME 11th Infantry Brigade Workshop, RCEME One LAA workshop Twelve light aid detachments.CPC
One divisional postal unit
MP
One provost company.
CIC
One field security section.
Bumping Rick's Challenge
Suggesting three key formation models for the Canadian Army
1. The Multi Domain Task Force which is a Colonel's Command that can be housed within a Division as is apparently the case with the 3rd MDTF and the 7th Inf Div. It is functionally related to the Air Defense Artillery Brigades.
View attachment 88808
2 The 11th Abn Division
Canadianized (or Kirkhillized)
Removing conventional artillery from the Infantry Brigades on the grounds that the enemy will be small and require company and battalion intervention at most. Further the battalions will have integral strike capabilities (mortars and LAMs) and will operate with air support. The battalions will also have suitable integral C-RAM/C-UAS capabilities.
The 4 infantry battalions will be identically structured for light operations in snowy environments while deployed and supported by fixed and rotary wing assets.
The 2 ISR-Strike Battalions will also be provided by the Infantry Corps and the Regiments will manage career progression through the battalion. Detailed composition TBD. One of the companies in each of those two battalions will be a LAV Company. The LAV Company serves two purposes. It has general utility and a few LAVs could come in handy. They are air portable onto a field. It also serves to keep some portion of the battalions current in LAV skills which could be handy if we went to the third formation. (More to follow on that).
The 5 RALC and 4 Fd (GS) would be tasked to the MDTF for Air Defence and Strategic Fires.
...