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Rick Mercer's vote rant

dimsum

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/thanks-a-heap-rick-mercer-the-students-might-actually-vote/article1985368/

I believe that the RMR did a good job with the rant a few weeks ago in firing up the "let's vote!" sentiment to the 18-24 crowd.  However, I'm concerned that it could backfire if it ends up with a whole bunch of young people voting for reasons other than actual party platforms.  But either way, good on Rick to get the student populations going on this.
 
Dimsum said:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/thanks-a-heap-rick-mercer-the-students-might-actually-vote/article1985368/

I believe that the RMR did a good job with the rant a few weeks ago in firing up the "let's vote!" sentiment to the 18-24 crowd.  However, I'm concerned that it could backfire if it ends up with a whole bunch of young people voting for reasons other than actual party platforms.  But either way, good on Rick to get the student populations going on this.

As long as the student population remains ignorant about political matters in general, I consider it a plus that my peers don't bother to vote.
 
Inky said:
As long as the student population remains ignorant about political matters in general, I consider it a plus that my peers don't bother to vote.

Hey man, voting because you want pot to be legal is clearly in the best interests of Canada.
 
That's the problem with democracy- power to the people. The informed AND the ignorant. Maybe there should be a VAT- voters aptitude test so only informed people can vote.

Call me elitist, but I fear for the future of this country when my generation finally influences the vote.
 
jwtg said:
That's the problem with democracy- power to the people.

I believe that de Tocqueville called it the tyranny of the majority....
 
As compared to other forms of tyranny that have happened? I still remember a time when a vote could be bought with a bottle of rum. There were also times when a person either got or lost a job based on who they voted for. Kids are not the only ones not voting, many adults aren't as well. Apathy, and frustration are two of the reasons.
When I was 19, I was better informed about politics than many of the adults in my life, as I also helped in canvasing and at the polling stations. Today, as then, many people still just vote based on how they were raised and not based on any real knowledge of how the system works (or fails to work).
 
Now votes will be bought with a joint instead of rum- or at least making joints legal.
 
jwtg said:
Now votes will be bought with a joint instead of rum- or at least making joints legal.

Or promises to make all of their post-secondary education studying basket weaving free.
 
IMHO, the problem nowadays is that a lot of people vote based on punctual promises, "vote for us, we'll make X more affordable" and so on.

If people had a more of a stake in actual good government and the proper running of the country in general, they might choose more judiciously.

Back in the days, not everyone could vote, only landowners and people that paid taxes above a certain bracket, I.E. people affluent enought to have a vested interest in the governement's ability to aptly handle stately affairs, protect the land and appropriately defend the national interests abroad.

 
PuckChaser said:
Or promises to make all of their post-secondary education studying basket weaving free.

Exactly what I had in mind.. First party past the post would be the first to offer a free BA. Who needs jets anyway?
 
Donaill said:
I still remember a time when a vote could be bought with a bottle of rum.

I can be bought for a bottle of scotch.  :nod:
 
jwtg said:
Call me elitist, but I fear for the future of this country when my generation finally influences the vote.

I'm sure that has been said about every generation. As people grow up and get a stake in the country by paying taxes, having a job, etc. they tend to start being more concerned about politics. Also, while there may be a general apathy amongst young people, I can tell you from spending 5 years working in politics full-time that there are a good number of very energized young people who are canvassing, putting up signs and even developing policy.

 
jeffb said:
I'm sure that has been said about every generation. As people grow up and get a stake in the country by paying taxes, having a job, etc. they tend to start being more concerned about politics. Also, while there may be a general apathy amongst young people, I can tell you from spending 5 years working in politics full-time that there are a good number of very energized young people who are canvassing, putting up signs and even developing policy.

Well said, well said. I wish I had something good to add to that but, in my opinion, you have said a world of truth in a small paragraph.
 
jeffb said:
I'm sure that has been said about every generation. As people grow up and get a stake in the country by paying taxes, having a job, etc. they tend to start being more concerned about politics.
Maybe we could raise the voting age to whatever age this happens at then.

Also, while there may be a general apathy amongst young people, I can tell you from spending 5 years working in politics full-time that there are a good number of very energized young people who are canvassing, putting up signs and even developing policy.
This is certainly encouraging- however, in my experience, this group is the minority.
 
jwtg said:
Maybe we could raise the voting age to whatever age this happens at then.

This, IMO is a terrible idea.

For one, we'd be pretty well obligated to raise the age at which you can deploy overseas as well, just on the principal.

More importantly, 18 years old is old enough to be capable of understanding and rationalizing whether or not you care about politics or not. Not all 18 year olds are at school, and not really paying much in taxes and therefore not caring how their taxes are spent or what they are spent on.

There are some 18 year old working full-time, raising a family, and keep themselves well-informed. These include some 18 year olds in the CF that have accepted unlimited liability at any given time.

It's bad enough these people can't legally drink a beer in most provinces. These people should not be robbed of their right to vote just because they have immature or apathetic peers. You will have immature and apathetic peers when you are 40 too. How would you like your vote taken away at 40? The line has to be drawn somewhere.
 
I disagree.  I think most 21 yr olds don't have the maturity level it takes to make these choices let alone 18.  Your statement about raising the age to go overseas is base less as well.
Some 18 yr olds may be mature enough but for the most part most aren't.

ballz said:
This, IMO is a terrible idea.

For one, we'd be pretty well obligated to raise the age at which you can deploy overseas as well, just on the principal.

More importantly, 18 years old is old enough to be capable of understanding and rationalizing whether or not you care about politics or not. Not all 18 year olds are at school, and not really paying much in taxes and therefore not caring how their taxes are spent or what they are spent on.

There are some 18 year old working full-time, raising a family, and keep themselves well-informed. These include some 18 year olds in the CF that have accepted unlimited liability at any given time.

It's bad enough these people can't legally drink a beer in most provinces. These people should not be robbed of their right to vote just because they have immature or apathetic peers. You will have immature and apathetic peers when you are 40 too. How would you like your vote taken away at 40? The line has to be drawn somewhere.
 
So you think it's fair to send someone overseas when they have no say in the leadership of their country?

Maturity levels DO vary widely, and are also hard to objectively quantify. That's why there needs to be an age where it's legal to vote. Personally, I think that if you're of an age to live on your own, work, pay taxes, etc (so basically at 18), you're old enough to vote.
 
Lone Wolf AT said:
I disagree.  I think most 21 yr olds don't have the maturity level it takes to make these choices let alone 18.  Your statement about raising the age to go overseas is base less as well.
Some 18 yr olds may be mature enough but for the most part most aren't.

Garbage. If someone is considered mature enough to make that kind of decision, they are mature enough to vote. How is that baseless?

Same goes with crime. You'd have to raise the age at which you can be tried as an adult, for the same reason.

There is a reason it is called "age of majority." You are telling me that you believe an 18 year old isn't mentally capable to "assume control over their persons, actions, and decisions." That's fine if you think that and so they shouldn't vote, but that also means they aren't capable of understanding the above and so can't be held fully accountable for their crimes, can't enter into a legally binding contract, and can't sign up for unlimitd liability. For you to say they have the mental capacity to do all these things, make these choices and fully understand them, but the not the mental capacity to vote is pure hypocrisy in it's truest form.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I also don't think apathy and maturity are very related, but that's a whole other debate. Apathy in youth could just be a simple sign of how well we have it in Canada that most 18 year olds have the opportunity to pursue whatever it is they want, not so much the case for a lot of our parents when they turned 18. Important to realize that apathy helps measure intensity of desire, without vote-trading, which kind of is having your cake and eating it too.
 
Lone Wolf AT said:
I disagree.  I think most 21 yr olds don't have the maturity level it takes to make these choices let alone 18.  Your statement about raising the age to go overseas is base less as well.
Some 18 yr olds may be mature enough but for the most part most aren't.

I agree with ballz... if you dont have the mental cognizance to vote, than you surely dont have the mental capacity to make life and death decisions while deployed on operations.  Further, if someone doesn't have the wherewithall to know what they want in a government, than they can't really be held responsible for crimes they commit.  Is it that you truly believe that the 18 year olds dont have the "maturity level" to vote, or that their political views sharply contrast your own?  I remember being 18, and being relatively politically well informed, and having people tell me they wanted to vote for the green party because they wanted pot legalized.  At the time I thought it was a lack of real understanding or maturity that led the person to want to put a government in place for such a small thing, but over the next 12 years I realized that no matter what age you are, these people exist.  C'est la vie.
 
I believe  being able to vote should be more based on mental ability in said vote, then age. As a 17 year old who has been actively been involved in politics and helping a candidate I see people twice my age that literally know nothing; why should they be able to vote and I can't yet?

I believe comparing "if he is not capable of voting" and "being deployed" are two different things. I believe there is no preparation age for something such a war-zone. That's all I have to add, I don't believe raising the voting age is at all necessary.. mostly because if I go through another election volunteering like this one and not being able to vote I'll crack ;).

- Mike
 
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