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Refueling: Tactical Armoured Patrol Vehicle - RG-31 and LAV Coyote Replacement

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Myth
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Nerf herder said:
I

A troop of Coyotes takes about 3000L in one day of hard driving. Where's the FARR going to come from because Jerry cans won't cut it.


Dream on.....

I present to you the "Folding funnel"
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~dgrev/dhmg/funnel01.html


The Brits ran their Centurions on Jerry cans for many years.
 
Colin P said:
I present to you the "Folding funnel"
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~dgrev/dhmg/funnel01.html


The Brits ran their Centurions on Jerry cans for many years.

Colin,

They didn't work worth a damn. Leaked more gas than we put in the tank. We used a flex spout or an actual funnel.

Most times we used a bowser with the one lung pup engine running the pump, but some genius thought that was too loud.

So we went to 'silent refuelling' with jerry cans. Except they were metal back then and it took a considerable effort to load enough fuel to accomplish anything.

263 imperial gallons was a full load and the Centurion burned appox 3-5 gal\mile (not mpg) through the 12 cylinder Rolls Royce Meteor engine.

Fuelling with approx 15-20 metal cans per tank, at night, was anything but silent
 
Colin P said:
I present to you the "Folding funnel"
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~dgrev/dhmg/funnel01.html


The Brits ran their Centurions on Jerry cans for many years.

We have something similar for the present tanks and they work

What I'm trying to get across is the environmental issues with using a cans truck, as each Sqn would need a minimum of two HLVWs converted to carry cans. That's why most, if not all, units have switched over to FARR to refuel. Carry 7000L and there is almost minimal environmental issues compared to a cans truck, which is almost guaranteed to leak at the best of times.
 
Colin P said:
I present to you the "Folding funnel"
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~dgrev/dhmg/funnel01.html


The Brits ran their Centurions on Jerry cans for many years.

We had those on our Centurions as well.  Much better piece of kit than the contraption that came with the Leo 1s.  It was stable.  Simple to open up and use.  Held two Jerrycans.  Filter and hose w/tap.  What more would you want?  Always wondered what happened to them.
 
George Wallace said:
We had those on our Centurions as well.  Much better piece of kit than the contraption that came with the Leo 1s.  It was stable.  Simple to open up and use.  Held two Jerrycans.  Filter and hose w/tap.  What more would you want?  Always wondered what happened to them.

We pitched them overboard, as they were junk.
 
recceguy said:
We pitched them overboard, as they were junk.

However, much better than the German "tripod" contraption. 

Although we are going with the FARR, a hugh leap forward, there will still be times where a FARR is unavail or unable to get in to refuel and Jerrycans will be the only option.  A device similar to what was used on the Cent would still be a useful tool.
 
recceguy said:
Colin,

They didn't work worth a damn. Leaked more gas than we put in the tank. We used a flex spout or an actual funnel.

Most times we used a bowser with the one lung pup engine running the pump, but some genius thought that was too loud.

So we went to 'silent refuelling' with jerry cans. Except they were metal back then and it took a considerable effort to load enough fuel to accomplish anything.

263 imperial gallons was a full load and the Centurion burned appox 3-5 gal\mile (not mpg) through the 12 cylinder Rolls Royce Meteor engine.

Fuelling with approx 15-20 metal cans per tank, at night, was anything but silent

I still can't imagine why they didn't use fuel bowsers or even smaller tanks mounted on pallet sized metal skids that could loaded 2-3 to any truck.
 
Colin P said:
I still can't imagine why they didn't use fuel bowsers or even smaller tanks mounted on pallet sized metal skids that could loaded 2-3 to any truck.

We did we had single pods on MLVWs that was good for a Cougar Sqn and double pods on 5 tons in regimental Transport. Then we (the Strats) made triple pods on the HLVW. We had 4, one to go with each Sqn and 1 for Hq Sqn. they worked well but we were told the FARs were more environmental friendlier and they gave us 3 or 4 to replace our triples. The FARs worked well as you could fuel 4 vehicles at the same time but the were limited to were they could go. The HLVWs and 5 tons were much better and were a lot more versatile.

Now back to the regular discussion topic  ;D
 
Colin P said:
I present to you the "Folding funnel"
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~dgrev/dhmg/funnel01.html


The Brits ran their Centurions on Jerry cans for many years.

This has been SPLIT FROM the ORIGINAL TOPIC as it ventured down another path that may or may not have some relevance to some.  Fuel is essential to the operations of Armour units.  Refueling is always a concern in the FIELD tactically or non-tactically.
 
George Wallace said:
We had those on our Centurions as well.  Much better piece of kit than the contraption that came with the Leo 1s.  It was stable.  Simple to open up and use.  Held two Jerrycans.  Filter and hose w/tap.  What more would you want?  Always wondered what happened to them.

I suspect that when you were in they were new, for recceguy they had likely seen better days. I saw kit get tossed, surplussed as it was seen to be "junk or old", but never replaced by anything else. One those was the gear to exercise the recoil systems, found it in the back corner, started using it as per regulations, then some senior NCO decided it was junk and had it tossed, never replaced.
 
Do you not make use of blivets?


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It seems to me almost any flat bed truck (or LAV or TLAV) could be turned into a bowser.  In fact you could carry both water an fuel on the same MLVW/MSVS.
 
US army PAM on refueling and re-arming points
http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/atp3_04x94.pdf

and for you modellers
http://www.scalemates.com/products/product.php?id=121772

I know the US army has/had dedicated refueling units and even pipeline lying units
 
We do have the FSDS (Fuel Storage and Delivery System) that can comes with berms to keep spillage to the environment to a minimum

EDITED

Then again they are for static locations, I will try and post up some pics later of it....
 
Kirkhill said:
It seems to me almost any flat bed truck (or LAV or TLAV) could be turned into a bowser.  In fact you could carry both water an fuel on the same MLVW/MSVS.

Water and rations don't mix with fuel. Separate vehicles.
 
I certainly remember the fuel hoppers on the Cent.
One thing you didn't want was fuel leaking on to a hot engine, so the hoppers were very well maintained, ours never leaked, and certainly expedited refueling.
This was circa 73, they may certainly have started falling apart after that.
I remember the commander calling down "How far did we drive?"
Driver "25 miles".
Commander "25 cans of gas please".
 
recceguy said:
Water and rations don't mix with fuel. Separate vehicles.

You got that before I did.  Sustainment no-no - same with poop.
 
The Strats do the refueling of their Sabre Sqns with jerries - and I wholeheartedly approve
 
1 RCR used an HLVW as a can truck last November.  Solution to environmental hazard due to leaky jerrys: put the spill berm (much like the one NFLD Sapper showed pics of, but smaller) INSIDE the cargo bed, fill with  fuel cans. 
 
Anyone's Grunt said:
1 RCR used an HLVW as a can truck last November.  Solution to environmental hazard due to leaky jerrys: put the spill berm (much like the one NFLD Sapper showed pics of, but smaller) INSIDE the cargo bed, fill with  fuel cans.

Ummmm.  That is what was required in "Cans" trucks as far back as the '80s.  It isn't a solution then; but rectifying a deficiency and correcting an incorrect practice.
 
The new leopards are hard on fuel 10 litres per km, plus I heard that the FARs we grounded because of frame cracks or something along that lines.
 
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