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Only One Man's Opinion


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Hello, I would like to say that I have relatives in the British forces and American. The recruiters in these countries stay on top of things and make sure things are running smoothly. Please do not say that it is human nature for Canadian recruiters to not do their jobs properly. The Canadian army is not what it was 20 years ago. If you read the newspapers Canadian slodiers are always complainig about something. Wake up to reality the Canadian army is not up to standard. By the way I always see on this sight about DEO applicants and how competitive it is. Well, why is it the CEOTP program was open up until last year because the army could not find enough people with degrees to become infantry officers?
Blackberry.  Gear down there big rig!  You seem (judging by your last couple of posts) to have a pretty big chip on your shoulder regarding the CF.  No one is saying that it's okay for people to not do their job, I think what people are saying is that no one is perfect and people make mistakes.  It's unfortunate, but it is reality in any organization.  What experience are you basing your opinion on about how different it is in the CF from 20 years ago?  Were you in 20 years ago? 
I joined the reserves about 12 years ago and it was very different. I was able to go on thurs nights and participate in the activities even before my proccessing was complete.
I was only in for a short time and I completed QL2 AND 3 if I remember the terms correct. I went to wainwright for battle school and I got out when I got back. I could not spend the time in the reserves because I had a new child and worked 60 hrs week. Anyways, I joined the British army a few years later. I tried to join the Marines first because my dad is american amd my mom is welsh. I am adopted so I had many options. I went throug the recruiting in the states in seattle. I did not get in because the INS said that because I was adopted they do not consider my father my real dad. I have had first hand experince in the recruiting proccess in Canada, England, and the united states.
I get tired of Canadian laziness and people thinking that is the way it should be. When I joined the British army  I wrote to them first and for 5 months a LT COL wrote back to e and coresponded with me. When I arrived at the Strand recruiting office LT COL Lumb {RETD} had contacted the recruiter sgt Hagerty {Welsh Guards} and had everything set up for me. I just wish th Canadian govt, army, police ect would get their shit together.
i am just wondering blackberry, if you think that canada's act is so screwed up why didn't you stay in britain? 
As I said if you read my message the Canadian forces was good many years ago. I did my time in England, and decided it was time to come home to my family.
I am curious Blackberry, you state that Canadian soldiers are always complaining and that we should wake up and realize that the Canadian Army is not up to standard. Question: Why are you trying to join then?

The Recruiting process is imperfect because it relies on people. To add to what Raptor said (Excellent Post!) there are no perfect recruitment processes out there. CF, RCMP, OPP, EMS, Fire, and on and on, they all have faults and people make mistakes, the mark of a good process is the people learning from their mistakes.

I wasn't in the CF 20 years ago, wasn't in 10 years ago, has it changed, I wouldn't argue that it hasn't, the whole world has changed. If anything the recruiters jobs have gotten harder because of the things going on in the world, the days of taking a fella off of the street and throwing him into uniform are over, security reasons say we just can't do that anymore. The problems anyone has at the CFRC have nothing to do with the state of the CF, in my opinion they have more to do with the things happening around us and how that affects how someone is hired. You can't get a passport like you could three years ago now, try crossing the border into the US, they are alot more strict on certain things than they were five years ago. Does it suck, no doubt, but I am happy to see that they are vetting the future troops as much as they can. Will it get better, well, time will tell, for those prospective troopies out there I sure hope that it does.

Just Thoughts

Blackberry. I've read your posts with considerable interest. You come onto this site spewing epithets and the vernacular calling all recruiters uneducated (which you misspelled)  idiots and claim that the recruiter suggested rampant racism within a certain unit. You also claimed that it was apparent from newspaper articles that the Canadian Army is not up to par and that soldiers are always complaining about one thing or another.

You say that you are a 29 year-old sociology student who is desparate to be a PPCLI officer. A couple of things here. Since sociology is the study of the development, structure and functioning of human society, and you are in your third year of this study, has it not yet occurred to you that you cannot believe everything that you read in the newspapers? These articles are written by people who, in a developing and functioning human society, do err on occassion, can leave out pertinent information or have it edited out, are not always able to interview the subject matter expert so will then interview any talking head that will give a good quote or sound bite and who may or may not jaundice the story with their own opinions. Also, each different media outlet has their own political slant and agenda.

Also, if the recruiter said what he or she did, why then do you come to complain about it on an internet forum. Surely an educated man like yourself knows that the best ways to deal with such treatment is to bring this matter to the attention of your Member of Parliament, or better yet the Human Rights Commission. Stomping your feet on an internet forum is not going to help you or the situation any.

And lastly, a good officer will think before they speak or act. That is obviously not a quality which you have developed and that surprises me from an educated, British military trained man such as yourself.
By the way I always see on this sight about DEO applicants and how competitive it is. Well, why is it the CEOTP program was open up until last year because the army could not find enough people with degrees to become infantry officers?

First off, I think its important to point out that not all DEO applicants are applying for the infantry.  Many of the potential DEO applicants on this forum may have been talking about something other than infantry officer.  In fact, most/many of the people who have posted here that they are going to IAP/BOTP next week have been accepted for other occupations.  I can't say how competitive (or not) infantry officer is, but I do know that many of the other trades are competitive, to a certain degree.

When I first started looking into joining, I had the same mistaken impression that they basically took everybody with a degree who applied.  Were that true, they could do away with the selection board and greatly speed up the recruiting process.  The truth in the matter is that for each trade they have a specific number of positions, and generally (at least, for the trades I applied for) many more people applying than positions available. 
I did a brief (three month) stint in a recruiting centre a few years ago for OJT, and from that (admittedly limited) experience, I would have to say that the problem in the recruiting system, with respect to the length of time for processing, has little to do with the CF.

The part of the process that takes the longest is the security / background chack. This is not handled by the CF - maybe it once was, but at the time, as I was being briefed in, they explained to me that the organization that handles the checks is CSIS. Now, like every other security / defence organization in the federal government, they are severely underfunded and overworked, and thus it can take up to six months to get the job done.

Blackberry, since you are obviously a Canadian taxpayer and citizen, and you think the system's broken, rather than slagging the CF for problems outside its control, and before you take off on CSIS for its problems that it cannot control, why don't you ask why these organizations have these problems in the first place, and complain about that instead? As a soldier, it's hard enough coping with government indifference, but when the resulting problems in my organization are blamed on me and my comrades ("Let's kick the starving man in the nuts and ask him why he's hungry!!"), well, I don't like that. Thanks for yet another blade in the back, as we try our best with our limited means to keep you alive and free.
Excellent post Peters :salute:

I have one thing to say to you blackberry .....You are gonna make a lot of good friends with that attitude... :rage:

If this was an ideal world the recruiting process would be a snap but it ain't so live with it.. and like everybody has told you a lot many times..


with that chip on your shoulder, i can almost guarantee you will have the best friendsin the world if you get in, feel sorry for your plt. mates but i guess when and if you get assigned to your unit, they will be most happy to make you feel at home.

Read into what nmpeters has to say because thats how you come across,   TRANSPARENT. I could attach a lot of instances to go with that word ...but anybody who has read any of   your post will know what im talking about.

hey not to get on your case everytime i read any of your post but you literally ask for it.

play in the mud and you will get dirty.

Blackberry, you may think that the CF recruiting process is slow and that it is in many cases, but it being slow can be a good thing also. It weeds out all the people who may be acting on a whim and don't think twice about joining and once they're in they realise that military life is not for them and then they are screwed until there three years are up. At least with the recruiting process taking a while it gives people time to think it over before they sign on for at least three years.

Also just one other thing to add, it doesn't have to do exactly with this topic, but it was mentioned earlier. You had complained in before how Canadian soldiers and military are not up to par according to newspapers and other media sources. I hate to break it to you, but media sources will always run something bad on the front page or have it as the first item in a news cast. As the saying goes, If it bleeds, it leads. There are a lot of good that the CF does and they are very well trained, actually some the best trained soldiers in the world. We just don't hear about it a lot because it doesn't make great news. It shows up here and there but you have to look for it to actually hear about it.
I have had CSIS background checks done in less then 48 hours, and regular police background checks in 5 min...so I don't know why 6 months is considered normal in the CF?  EVERYONE is but a keystroke away from the mighty gaze of big brother.  ;)

My recruiter pointed to other areas that get things slowed down...mostly self inflicted mistakes, that get your paperwork shuffled to the bottom of the pile.  A good recruiter can get you through this stuff, and help you keep the ball rolling.


BTW: there is no "s" at the end of 'Anyway'. 
Here in Canada... anyway.  :)
Pugnacious. From what I understand, since Sept 11th CSIS will take 6 months to even a year for their background check if you've lived out of the country.

Thank you for the "s" on "anyway" note. I tried explaining that a few months ago and people around here cut my hands off at the wrists as a result. So I stopped trying.   ;D
"If you read the newspapers Canadian slodiers are always complainig about something. Wake up to reality the Canadian army is not up to standard."

I will have to disagree with that. Yes, we may note that we want more funds but what organization doesn't want more money to do things? Even charity funds want more money than the year before, it gives you the ability to do more. We, the soldiers do not always complain about something. The after work talk over a beer may entail how poor weather prevented the Griffons from flying or how the fog prevented the range shoot today, but I don't recall ever coming home from my civy job and phoning friends about all the quirks of the Helo-cast earlier that day and still being pretty psyched up about it for many a day after.

You stated that the CF is not up to standard but what is your standard? We may not have the numbers but those that are in are of a very high skill-level and a professional at his occupation. For us infanteers, we may not have all the live ammo that we could use but that gives us the opportunity to diversify our skillsets and become a better all-round soldier.

Like everything, we can be better. I have yet to see anything that is perfect. Tomorrow I will wake up and realise that I am a Canadian soldier and I am up to a high enough standard that makes me deployable to anywhere in the world on a mere fews days notice because of the abilities the CF has granted me.