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Navy to let women sail on submarines

Let's get something straight and on the table once and for all; everyone is "biased".  It is human nature.  It won't go away.  No one holds a monopoly on it.

It is human nature to be "biased" towards anything that is new, unknown, or different.  This "bias" includes things like "Racism", "Homophobia", "Sexism" and a very wide range of biases towards other matters including "Religion", "Ethnic Origin", "Social Class", "Place of Birth", "Who your Parents were", and on and on. 

Does it exist?  Yes! 

Do the members of the CF have policies in place to counter "biases"?  Yes!

Is it a "MAJOR" concern to the majority who are now Serving in the CF, whereby it is negatively affecting their work environment?  No.        Only those who are commonly found to be trying to justify their own advancement in a career where they have not performed satisfactorily seem to be pulling out the "Discrimination Card".  People who have been substandard in their performance evaluations due to poor work ethics and inflated egos.  People who have been milking the System and crying foul for every and any percieved injustice (In many cases, total fabrications.) to compensate for their poor PER evaluations.  It makes you wonder who has the moral and ethical problems; the complaint or the complaintant?

So I repeat say again:  Is it a "MAJOR" concern to the majority who are now Serving in the CF, whereby it is negatively affecting their work environment?  No.
Enough already.

I've received PMs that have essentially begged me to post in this thread. Apparently only "one" of the usual suspects has admitted that discrimination exists in the CF. A close read of the thread will reveal that is NOT the case at all.

This usual suspect is sick & tired of the PMs to me goading me into posting by a certain member ... who then claims me (being one of the usual suspects) "circling my wagons" and never admitting that the CF doesn't have any discrimation. I stated that they was discrimation -- right in this very thread. Don't ask me to post in here, then PM a mod to assist your ass because your getting "dogpiled" when YOU aksed me to respond.

I think that's clear enough for anyone to understand.

Troll: Goodbye.

There is bias & discrimination in the CF.  We saw it proven on this thread last night when a member accused all female submariners of being promiscuos & sleeping around with the crew and then defended that comment.  (and we are not going to revisit that debate as the thread is now cleaned-up & I hope the individual sees the error of the comment)

However, I (yes, I know it is another "I" but they are adding up) have seen little to no discrimination based on gender outside of the example above (certainly, nothing springs to mind).  For the people who experience it, discrimination is a problem.  At the institutional level, I do not think there is a major problem.  The fact is that there are things in place to respond to discrimination if/where it occurs.  Those who might discriminate know that they would be gambling with the future of their service.
The system is generally effective in dealing with discrimination, harassment and racism.  The system has come a long way in the last 20 years with the implementation of checks and balances.  The normal appearance of dislike or disrespect is based on personal actions, lack of assimilation, poor teamwork skills and incompetent performance of a task or duties.  The system is not self correcting but the policies that support the checks and balances are in place.  It takes leadership at all levels to recognize unjust treatment, acknowledge every complaint and ensure that an appropriate investigation of the allegations is conducted.  That is the law of the land and the CF adheres to it.
Congratulations  Springroll !!!!!!      Congratulations  Springroll !!!!!!     Congratulations  Springroll  !!!!!! 

33 years ago I was at the leading edge of equal opportunity for women in the US Army.  Many of the things I did were a first. I was the first woman to graduate 1st in the class for my MOS.  When I was posted, I was the first woman my section sergeant had under his supervision in 15 years of service.  When we went on field exercises, often I was the only woman out there with a couple thousand men.  While I was at my company, the first female officer was posted in the history of the company, and the battalion, I think.  Afterwards, in college, when I was in the veteran’s assistance queue, I was told I was in the wrong line countless times.  When I joined a veteran’s organization about 15 years ago, I was the first women elect to an office in the history of that local post.

Those times are history, and now there is Vern, and you, and more in the future.  There was discrimination, of course.   Both ways.  In bad ways and good ways.  Sometime I had men watching out for me because I was a woman.  That taught me how great most men are.  Decent, honest, protective, and often in the way of a comrade that is gender-irrelevant. 

When you are one of the first women posted on a sub, I am guessing there may be many unanticipated situations that will be left to the good efforts of you and those around you.  For example, the first time I went out on a field exercise, no one had really thought ahead and planned about what they were going to do with me at night.  Our squad kind-of muddle thru it, and arrangement were decided among us.  Also, every time I needed to use the facilities, I needed to take a man with me to stand outside, since no one wanted any awkward intrusions.  I bet out of those thousands of men out there, maybe only two dozen knew there was a woman around and about.  It was always a fun and interesting surprise when I went to the mess tent.

You will be fine because you are servicing with honorable and decent men and woman, in the majority, like many of the ones that appear on this site.  You have what it takes to figure it out, as things come up, and so does everyone else.

boxseats +1

As for the sub issue, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to serve on one has something different going on in their head.  ;D  Not neccessarily wrong, just different.  I prefer being able to role over on my cot/bed/rack and not have to worry about getting stuck.  Then there's that wonderful "boat" smell.  Of course, serving on the boat you'd probably get used to it, but that doesn't make it smell any sweeter.  ;)  WRT the use of the heads and ablutions, I can only compare to my field experience.  It's amazing how creative you can get in order to clean yourself.  And I'm sure after awhile people just won't care what you're wearing (or not) when you go for your bird bath.

Good luck on the training.  I don't envy you...but that's only because I have an issue with small spaces.  ;D
I have only seen one type of racism.
"Warrant doesn't like me cause I'm a Muslim."

...Of course it had nothing to do with him being late twice that week,poor turn out for parade,poor work ethic.

Most of the time I ever hear anything about racism (in a serious manner) It's usually someone making excuses for their poor performance.Nothing to do with the warrant being a racist.

Does it exist.Yup.
Does it affect work?In some situations.

I worked with an Indian (from India) and a Pakistani.They hated each other with a passion.Refused to even look at each other.There was never anything done as both said they were fine with the other person.But behind closed door's they were very open for the hate of not the other person,but the other persons background.

I am working with a small group of people.Mix of Polish,natives,black,french,English (from multiple Caucasian backgrounds) the only thing it affects is the jokes. ;D We are all really tight and are comfortable with each other to do so.I take my share of the ribbing for being a stupid newf,and the rest for the sweeping generalisations of their race,religion,etc.

But as I said most of the times I hear of someone having a "rough go",it them.Not their background.

the 48th regulator said:
Right on Cameron, good luck.  You will find that there are many trades available, and you will make many life long friendships.



Thanks regulator.
As for the sub issue, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to serve on one has something different going on in their head.

Out of curiosity, do you know my wife? :skull:

Dolphin Code 38