Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) LdSH(RC)

[Hazard_duke]

Just curious if the Jr NCO's in the Strats wear mess dress? like besides putting on a white shirt and bow tie with DEU's.. like if they were the standard Army Mess dress or if they wear patrols with chain mail or what.. .thanks!

 

[George Wallace]

NCMs are permitted to purchase Mess Kit if they so desire.  Patrol Dress is now found only in the Reserves, who are preserving them, not as a 'After Duty' dress, but as a form of Mess Kit; and certain Reg Force Units that use them for Ceremonial occasions.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That may be the case for some Reserve units George, certainly not for all. Our Patrols are for parades and 'walking out'. Our Mess kit, is for formal functions after 18:00.

 

[Tango24B]

OK, here is another Cold War query.

I recently came upon some Troop patches dated between 1968 and 1970 from the LdSH(RC) for a Anti-Tank Troop that used the SS-11 / ENTAC Missile in Germany.

The dates make sense as the Strathconas were replaced in Germany by the RCD in June 1970.

Could these have been Ferret or M38A1 Cdn Jeep or M37 truck mounted SS-11 / ENTAC Missiles?

If anyone has information on these patches or whether they are real or not it would be appreciated.

Here is a post on another site where I provided images of the two patches...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/message/1333292979/Troop+Patches

 

[AaronJohnTurner]

Very neat, I'd like to find out if these are real as well.

 

[prospectniner]

*is this topic allowed to be discussed? if not let me know*

the LdSH(RC) has 4 squadrons. A, B, Recce and HQ according to their website. but when click on the link to each respective one there seems to be limited information on the make up and role of each.

Now, I was also on the Dragoons' website and -while not extensively detailed- do provide information regarding the make up and role of each squad.

now if possible could someone briefly describe the role of the different squadrons? specifically if much like the Dragoons do the LdSH(RC) recce also partake in enemy engagement as an option? also are there any dismounted troop like the  ones found in the Dragoons among the (RC)?

Cheers.

 

[daftandbarmy]

*is this topic allowed to be discussed? if not let me know*

the LdSH(RC) has 4 squadrons. A, B, Recce and HQ according to their website. but when click on the link to each respective one there seems to be limited information on the make up and role of each.

Now, I was also on the Dragoons' website and -while not extensively detailed- do provide information regarding the make up and role of each squad.

now if possible could someone briefly describe the role of the different squadrons? specifically if much like the Dragoons do the LdSH(RC) recce also partake in enemy engagement as an option? also are there any dismounted troop like the  ones found in the Dragoons among the (RC)?

Cheers.

The role of armoured recce was concisely explained by General Patton: 'Go down that road until you get blown up.'

Suffice it to say that yes, they get involved in punch ups and, usually, are one of the first to do so.

;D

 

[Ludoc]

Where new guys can go when posted to the Regiment:

A & B Sqn are tank squadrons. They are, on paper, mirrors of each other and do exactly what you think. Through their superior mobility and firepower they destroy the enemy.

Recce Sqn (D Sqn) is mounted recce for the Brigade. They move around in front of other units in order to find the enemy so the rest of the brigade's combat units can be vectored accurately onto enemy forces.

If recce is doing their job right they should not be getting in fights because no one should know they are there. However, we recognize that things rarely go according to plan. That is why recce is armed almost as well as a tank sqn. So it can destroy targets of opportunity and defend itself.

Recce Sqn also also holds/flies UAVs and is the Brigade's CBRN recce asset. So it has the ability to specialize in some cool stuff (To be fair the tank sqns probably have some cool specialist courses but I am less familiar with them).

HQ Sqn supports the other sqns. The other squadrons have a limited ability to fix broken vehicles and equipment. Additionally each squadron carries some stores to support themselves (food, fuel, ammo). HQ Sqn is there to support beyond what the squadrons can do themselves. It: resupplies stores as each sqn runs out; it holds specialized equipment in case the squadrons needs it; it has advanced maintenance personnel and tools to fix what the squadrons can not by themselves; and it provides a bunch of other support roles (medics/clerks/etc).

Gagetown is where the Armoured Corps traines its troops. Because of, that it needs a lot of people to drive and maintain vehicles. So some people (from all three armoured regiments) get posted there immediately after they finish their trade's training.


Dismounted Operations in the army everyone is a soldier. What that means is that everyone is should have the ability to operate dismounted. To that end dismounted operations are the focus of the practical field portions of BMQ, BMQ-L and PLQ. To stay sharp Recce Sqn has done exercises with a focus on patrolling and if their is more than one sqn in the field they will patrol against each other.

However, in real life, if we need dudes to kick in doors there is a whole building full of them two doors down from us. And if their LAVs can't get them there, two buildings in the other direction we there is a whole mess of guys that are ready to jump out of planes/helicopters to kick in those doors. PPCLI soldiers are really good at what they do, they don't need (nor want, I suspect) us to do their job.

There is scope send people on basic para, basic recce, advanced small arms and urban ops but those opportunities are few and far between. Yes, there are people with those courses in the Regiment, but not many, because they are not the focus of an armoured unit. While we are all soldiers, only infanteers are infanteers. If you want to be an infanteer join the infantry.

Disclosure: I am not a Crewman but I have been posted to the Strathconas for the last 5 years.

 

[prospectniner]

Where new guys can go when posted to the Regiment:

A & B Sqn are tank squadrons. They are, on paper, mirrors of each other and do exactly what you think. Through their superior mobility and firepower they destroy the enemy.

Recce Sqn (D Sqn) is mounted recce for the Brigade. They move around in front of other units in order to find the enemy so the rest of the brigade's combat units can be vectored accurately onto enemy forces.

If recce is doing their job right they should not be getting in fights because no one should know they are there. However, we recognize that things rarely go according to plan. That is why recce is armed almost as well as a tank sqn. So it can destroy targets of opportunity and defend itself.

Recce Sqn also also holds/flies UAVs and is the Brigade's CBRN recce asset. So it has the ability to specialize in some cool stuff (To be fair the tank sqns probably have some cool specialist courses but I am less familiar with them).

HQ Sqn supports the other sqns. The other squadrons have a limited ability to fix broken vehicles and equipment. Additionally each squadron carries some stores to support themselves (food, fuel, ammo). HQ Sqn is there to support beyond what the squadrons can do themselves. It: resupplies stores as each sqn runs out; it holds specialized equipment in case the squadrons needs it; it has advanced maintenance personnel and tools to fix what the squadrons can not by themselves; and it provides a bunch of other support roles (medics/clerks/etc).

Gagetown is where the Armoured Corps traines its troops. Because of, that it needs a lot of people to drive and maintain vehicles. So some people (from all three armoured regiments) get posted there immediately after they finish their trade's training.


Dismounted Operations in the army everyone is a soldier. What that means is that everyone is should have the ability to operate dismounted. To that end dismounted operations are the focus of the practical field portions of BMQ, BMQ-L and PLQ. To stay sharp Recce Sqn has done exercises with a focus on patrolling and if their is more than one sqn in the field they will patrol against each other.

However, in real life, if we need dudes to kick in doors there is a whole building full of them two doors down from us. And if their LAVs can't get them there, two buildings in the other direction we there is a whole mess of guys that are ready to jump out of planes/helicopters to kick in those doors. PPCLI soldiers are really good at what they do, they don't need (nor want, I suspect) us to do their job.

There is scope send people on basic para, basic recce, advanced small arms and urban ops but those opportunities are few and far between. Yes, there are people with those courses in the Regiment, but not many, because they are not the focus of an armoured unit. While we are all soldiers, only infanteers are infanteers. If you want to be an infanteer join the infantry.

Disclosure: I am not a Crewman but I have been posted to the Strathconas for the last 5 years.

I'm heading to BMQ this Sep as a crewman. If I wanted to be an Infanteer I would have rejected their offer and waited. My initial interest in dismounted troops stems from my curiosity about the Assault Troop. Now I was on the Dragoons website and let me quote what they had to say about there D Squadron; "Currently D Sqn is reinvigorating the way it conducts operations by taking a more cavalry mindset and employing aggressive and effective recce tactics. The Sqn will deploy into the battle space utilizing flexibility and superior firepower when appropriate to effectively engage the enemy. When superior firepower is not possible, D Sqn will employ stealthy recce tactics to better define and shape the enemy objective."

I'm aware of the role of Recce and what their job entails. If they're the ones kicking down doors then someone has royally fudged up or shite has hit the fan. But when you read the opening state about D Sqn it seems it taking a more cavalry mindset. they're looking for fights or being used as a way to eliminate targets. but that might just be because the Dragoons don't have as many MBTs as LdSH(RC) Therefore, they're foced to utilize their LAVs as more than just a Recce asset.

On the website they also note that the D Sqn also utilizes dismounted troop. here is the quote "The Sqn is broken down into five troops. 41 and 42 are both mounted reconnaissance troops each with 23 personnel and six coyotes. Their role as a cavalry troop is to furnish the medium recce force for 2 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group, providing fast moving eyes and ears for the commander. As the dismounted troop, 43 is equipped with one LAV III and 15 pers. Their role is not dissimilar to that of the two mounted troops, however 43 specializes in supplying the Squadron with pioneer and dismounted capabilities such as building improvised defensive positions, conducting clearing sweeps, and a variety of other dismounted tasks."

While I have heard that the Assault Troop are no longer, and there seems to be no real evidence of their existence, Troop 43 seems to be heavily influenced or has similar traits as that of an Assaulter. Now I know you stated that you are not a crewman. so I don't expect you to care as much as I do about the nuances of the roles. But, the Assault Troop are trained in both Infantry and Engineering tactics. Hence, why I asked about the dismounted troop being used among the LdSH(RC). But if you haven't come by anyone who is apart of a troop that uses such tactics it can either mean that the (RC) either chooses not or you just have yet to meet an person apart of such a troop.

Anyway sorry for the long post. Just wanted to clarify what I really meant.

Cheers.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . .  My initial interest in dismounted troops stems from my curiosity about the Assault Troop. . . .

Some of your curiosity about the Assault Troop may be satisfied with this thread, titled (not unsurprisingly) "Assault troop".
https://army.ca/forums/threads/1635.0.html

It is dated, but as you seem to want to connect the "return of assault pioneers" to a similar return of an assault troop, it may be helpful to understand what people (who had first hand experience with the troop) understood to be their role.  I am not now nor have I ever been a crewman, but similar to staying in a Holiday Inn last night, I did have a very short stay with the Strathconas (it wasn't last night - it was in the 1970s) and the "assault troop" that was in the squadron to which I was attached as the medic sounded very much as this.

This is a subject near and dear to my heart. First off I have to clarify something that often gets messed up in translation.

Assault troop's primary role is "the ground element of a Reconnaissance Squadron" They are not pioneers, nor are they engineers.

The primary tasks of assault troop were dismounted Patrolling (Standing/Recce/LRRP and occasionally fighting patrols), OP's (of the mud variety in support of the deaf and sight limited technology of the Coyote), Vital Point Defence, counter recce operations (Anti armour ambushes, constructing minor obstacles), limited assault capability, NBCD Recce's and mine warfare (clearing and laying of... on a limited scale)

Obviously many of these tasks are done by both Engineers and Pioneers but it is the combination of all of them and their particular utility to a Recce Sqn 25-50Km in advance of the FLOT that made the elimination of the assault troop (in my opinion) the worst possible cut to the Recce Sqn/Regt.

Having said that though, although the visually challenged in HQ may have done away with assault troop, with the lack of "recce" platforms in the RCD (don't know about the other Regts) at least one Sqn (B) has a "Dismounted Troop". Except for some of the Gucci kit and training real assault troops get they will be doing much the same job.

On a personal note, being the new Tp WO has given me my "hat trick", that is to say I've held every position in an "assault troop" from Cpl to WO  ;D

I'm not willing to let the Assault Troop idea (or much of the training) die and firmly believe, that sooner rather than later the Corps will realize it's mistake.

 

[prospectniner]

Some of your curiosity about the Assault Troop may be satisfied with this thread, titled (not unsurprisingly) "Assault troop".
https://army.ca/forums/threads/1635.0.html

It is dated, but as you seem to want to connect the "return of assault pioneers" to a similar return of an assault troop, it may be helpful to understand what people (who had first hand experience with the troop) understood to be their role.  I am not now nor have I ever been a crewman, but similar to staying in a Holiday Inn last night, I did have a very short stay with the Strathconas (it wasn't last night - it was in the 1970s) and the "assault troop" that was in the squadron to which I was attached as the medic sounded very much as this.

Black, I actually scrolled through that post before posting the initial question. I was curious if the (RC) had a Squadron like the one found among the Dragoons. But, I guess I did a poor job of explaining myself.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

* disclaimer * It's been a decade+ since I've been out of the zipperhead world but....

Any Troop in D Sqn can quickly become a 'dismounted troop' once vehicle casualties start happening... :nod:  (don't say Troop 43...just saying *4-3* tells anyone that you're referring to the 3rd troop of D Sqn...and don't say "forty three".  Just "four three".  You'll learn about that 'fixed callsign' stuff at Battle School...)

LdSH (RC) isn't usually referred to just as "RC";  if referring to that Regiment in 'army abbrev speak', it's common to call them "the LdSH", "Strats", "Strathcona's"...although I've heard Dragoons refer to them using...other...unofficial...names.  ;D

Ludoc might not be a 'zipperhead' but, I'd say his info would be pretty solid - he's been with the Strat's for 5 years.  You've stated that you are going to BMQ next month, but yet you seem to think you understand how a Regiment works, how D Sqn works.  I'll nicely say I don't think you have begun to understand how a Bde Recce Sqn (ie D Sqn) works, the difference between D Sqn, 60 Tp, etc etc.

Point?  Don't bat aside good info from folks who are trying to answer your questions so quickly.  They'll stop answering you.   

As a former mud recce type, I'd say you need the skillset of mounted and dismounted recce.  Dismounted recce can be a part of a patrol tasking on a mounted recce task, it can be a separate recce task from the mounted elements.  It seems like you see the 2 "types" of recce as separate (which they can be...) and my experience is it is not quite so black and white.  :2c: 

AFIAK...the only RCD Sqn with Leo's is C Sqn (Gagetown).  I'm not sure of how much Recce By Force is happening in Pet day to day in the trg area.  CRVs (Coyotes) aren't limitless in the Cdn Army...I'm not sure any Commander is going to give OC D Sqn the nod to "draw swords...charge!". 

Good luck at BMQ next month!

 

[prospectniner]

* disclaimer * It's been a decade+ since I've been out of the zipperhead world but....

Any Troop in D Sqn can quickly become a 'dismounted troop' once vehicle casualties start happening... :nod:  (don't say Troop 43...just saying *4-3* tells anyone that you're referring to the 3rd troop of D Sqn...and don't say "forty three".  Just "four three".  You'll learn about that 'fixed callsign' stuff at Battle School...)

LdSH (RC) isn't usually referred to just as "RC";  if referring to that Regiment in 'army abbrev speak', it's common to call them "the LdSH", "Strats", "Strathcona's"...although I've heard Dragoons refer to them using...other...unofficial...names.  ;D

Ludoc might not be a 'zipperhead' but, I'd say his info would be pretty solid - he's been with the Strat's for 5 years.  You've stated that you are going to BMQ next month, but yet you seem to think you understand how a Regiment works, how D Sqn works.  I'll nicely say I don't think you have begun to understand how a Bde Recce Sqn (ie D Sqn) works, the difference between D Sqn, 60 Tp, etc etc.

Point?  Don't bat aside good info from folks who are trying to answer your questions so quickly.  They'll stop answering you.   

As a former mud recce type, I'd say you need the skillset of mounted and dismounted recce.  Dismounted recce can be a part of a patrol tasking on a mounted recce task, it can be a separate recce task from the mounted elements.  It seems like you see the 2 "types" of recce as separate (which they can be...) and my experience is it is not quite so black and white.  :2c: 

AFIAK...the only RCD Sqn with Leo's is C Sqn (Gagetown).  I'm not sure of how much Recce By Force is happening in Pet day to day in the trg area.  CRVs (Coyotes) aren't limitless in the Cdn Army...I'm not sure any Commander is going to give OC D Sqn the nod to "draw swords...charge!". 

Good luck at BMQ next month!

My intention was never to come off as a guy with his head up his rear end regarding how much he knew. I'm just aware that armour recce doesn't engage willfully unless spotted or provoked. So when I went on the Dragoons' website and read about them embracing a more active role on the battle field I was curious if the "Strathcona's" were doing the same.
Primarily because, I wanted to be posted out there if I'm able to get that choice in the matter. Even though I know I don't due to the needs of the CAF. Anyways, I don't possess even a ounce of the knowledge that you guys have. So I hope i didn't offend anyone with the way I asked my questions. Also, regarding the colloquialism and the best wishes I thank you.

Cheers.

 

[Ludoc]

I wouldn't worry too much about the current makeup of Troops in each regiment. Those are the kinda things that change constantly depending on operational need, equipment availability, command personalities and manning levels.

It is currently a time of great flux for the Armoured Corps, especially the recce element of it. TAPVs are brand new in the units; the LRSS is right around the corner; MSVS SMP are currently being rolled out. By the time you get through BMQ, sit around in PAT, get through BMQ-L, go back to PAT, and then get through DP-1 a lot can (and probably will) change.

All three regiments are different and pride themselves on being so. However as a new guy you will not be in a position to really tell one from another. Until you become indoctrinated into the culture of your home unit you will not really have the experience to differentiate them.

All units have both their good points and bad ones. I wouldn't worry too much about where you are going to end up, there will be great opportunities everywhere. For now concentrate on the next couple steps of your career. You will be busy enough with getting through all of that.

 

[prospectniner]

I wouldn't worry too much about the current makeup of Troops in each regiment. Those are the kinda things that change constantly depending on operational need, equipment availability, command personalities and manning levels.

It is currently a time of great flux for the Armoured Corps, especially the recce element of it. TAPVs are brand new in the units; the LRSS is right around the corner; MSVS SMP are currently being rolled out. By the time you get through BMQ, sit around in PAT, get through BMQ-L, go back to PAT, and then get through DP-1 a lot can (and probably will) change.

All three regiments are different and pride themselves on being so. However as a new guy you will not be in a position to really tell one from another. Until you become indoctrinated into the culture of your home unit you will not really have the experience to differentiate them.

All units have both their good points and bad ones. I wouldn't worry too much about where you are going to end up, there will be great opportunities everywhere. For now concentrate on the next couple steps of your career. You will be busy enough with getting through all of that.

Ludoc, thanks for the advice, I guess the excitement and jitters has me over thinking things. As for the constant change of regiments that is duly noted. Focusing on whats in front of me now is probably best for me anyway. Besides, doing my best during training is all that I can really control, everything else is up to the military to decide.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Besides, doing my best during training is all that I can really control, everything else is up to the military to decide.

There are people who have been in the Army for 20 years who still haven't figured that out. You'll do well!  :nod: