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Dutch ships and designs and the possibilities for Canada

LoboCanada said:
Plenty of info about this spread out about this. Mentioned in multiple RCN threads too (by myself as well). Interesting platform with impressive capabilities. I hope the A26-Oceanic replaces the Victorias.
VLS, Multi-Mission Portal for UUVs and special swimmers.






True,a lot is known about the A-26(Blekinge),but not much is known about what sub(which configuration) will replace "Walrus",thought that was the question. ;)
Karel Doorman said:
True,a lot is known about the A-26(Blekinge),but not much is known about what sub(which configuration) will replace "Walrus",thought that was the question. ;)

That was the question.  I do however appreciate the consolidation of the A26 info into one place.

On 2 December, the first sample of the Royal Navy's Combat Support Ship (CSS) was cut at Damen Shipyards Galati (Romania). A total of 7,500 tons of steel will be cut in 180 sections for the new navy ship. This is an important milestone in the construction project and is the first tangible part of the ship's construction.

The date of cutting the first steel has been raised slightly to ensure the progress of the project. The ship must be built under the applicable safety rules around COVID-19. As a result, a little more time had to be calculated in order to be able to finish the ship on time.

With the arrival of the new CSS, the maritime supply capacity will be restored for the Royal Navy. This ship will carry out the supply tasks together with the Joint Support Ship Zr.Ms. Karel Doorman. The construction of the CSS is therefore based on the design of the Karel Doorman. The supply ship can operate worldwide under the protection of frigates. In addition, it can be used independently, for example in the fight against drug trafficking at sea, the provision of emergency aid or the control of refugee flows.

The engineering of the ship takes place mainly in the Netherlands. In addition to the main contractor Damen, the ship involves 100 mainly Dutch suppliers, who are helping to build the ship. The next milestone in construction is scheduled for May next year, when the keel laying of the ship will take place.

[Source: Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding ]
Here we go.

It will replace the Zr.Ms Amsterdam which was sold to Peru in December 2014.(Due to defense spending cuts,which all knew would be troublesome for replenishment)

Luckily we will get extra(much needed)capacity

Damen lays keel for new RNLN support ship

Damen Shipyards held a keel-laying ceremony for the Royal Netherlands Navy's (RNLN's) new combat support ship (CSS) at its yard in Galati, Romania, on 2 June.

Chinese state-owned shipbuilder tapped to supply ferry for Crown corporation as Canadians remain jailed​

Sorry, we can't buy Dutch ships -- we're funding China's shipbuilding industry.

(Yes, it's somewhat convoluted, involving sub-contracting through other nations' industries, but bottom line = CA$$ -> PRC)
They could easily cancel it. The question is, will they?

We are currently well underway with the NSS, and looking for ways to include Davie. While a ferry or two isn't much, there is no reason they can't be built locally given how much focus and resources we've put into the NSS, and may be a good way to give Davie some momentum. (Or not, I have no idea of how the specifics would work.)

I also understand if we choose to have it built in a EU yard. But now that it has been discovered that sub-contracting has gone to a Chinese state-owned shipbuilding company, why not put the contract on hold or cancel it altogether? I'm sure we could find a way to get a ferry built without involving China, and still not break any of our self-created rules 🤦‍♂️

Edit - I wrote this post prior to reading this article, as I was getting ready to leave the house and skimming things at the same time. Now that I have read this article, all I can say is what an absolute f**king joke.

NWT wants 4 new barges to help transport natural resources? Contract a Canadian yard, such as Davie, that is actively looking for work (unlike Irving) and that is now included in the NSS. Yes, they might cost a little bit more money...but barges aren't expensive, and it's the federal government that is paying the bill anyway. Like...<sigh>...FFS
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And don't forget Heddle. They have the resources available to start immediately on simple construction like barges and with their partnership with Seaspan would allow them the design expertise to do the ferry. It doesn't have to be the big three
Zr.Ms. Evertsen will be the first frigate with the new gun

The first of the four 127/64 LW guns of the Italian company Leonardo, will be placed on Zr.Ms. Evertsen. The Air Defense and Command Frigate (LCF) will be maintained next year, will be modernized and will therefore receive the new gun.

n other news it looks like Greece is still interested in buying the old M klasse frigates. Oh and the six minesweepers that are left in Dutch service. Apparently the Greek media reported that a MOU (? intentieverklaring) was signed on wednesday, which was confirmed by the DMO, for the sale of Zr.Ms. Van Speijk en Zr.Ms. Van Amstel to Greece. Some interesting points;

1. Last Juli DMO vice-admiraal Arie Jan de Waard told marineschepen.nl that they where aware of the interest in the frigates. But that the navy didn't want a gap in ASM capability and would only give them up when the replacements come online.

2. However in the defense project overview of the last state budget proposals (prinsjesdag here in the NL it's a thing) there was the following sentence: "De M-fregatten zijn vanaf medio 2025 operationeel niet meer nodig vanwege de instroom van de nieuwe vaartuigen uit het project ‘Vervanging M-fregatten’." Meaning that the frigates aren't necessary anymore around 2025, but their replacements are delayed to the 2027/28 time period. And it wouldn't surprise me if they where delayed some more along the way.

3. As far as I'm aware, these frigates are already getting pretty long in the tooth. Back in 2015 there where reports about the gasturbines giving problems because of overuse and their hours being limited. And the obsolescence of some systems and their suppliers not supporting them anymore. I don't know if they're doing an extensive refit, but it seems unlikely for 80 million a piece...

4. Update. The defense ministry reports that the MOU is about the possibility of the sale of 8 vessels.
Here in the Netherlands there is also a project ongoing to replace the FRISCS,the replacement will be something like the Swedish CB90.

Damen has designed a new FAC(Fasr Assault Craft),hope this will be the new "boats"

Damen Shipyards has designed a Fast Assault Craft, which can execute a wide variety of tasks and operations. The FAC is developed for executing Maritime Security Operations, force protection, Riverine and amphibious operations. The main task of the FAC is the fast delivery of assault troops or other personnel, ship to object manoeuvring (STOM), ship to shore, maritime interdiction and various additional operation types. It can also be modified to act as a command platform, ambulance, etc.

The FAC can be equipped with the appropriate specialized equipment, communication and weapon systemsto execute the required task. The design characteristics of the FAC are robustness, agility, shallow draught, ease of use and maintenance, which allow it to operate at speeds of in excess of 30 knots in riverine and shallow coastal waters. The FAC has twin water jets driven by two diesel engines.

Embarked Forces can be quickly embarked and disembarked by means of a forward ramp. It is possible to transport a number of 17 troops below main deck in comfortable seats to assure
embarked forces are fit upon arrival.

The design has been optimized to ensure crew and embarked forces can continue operations in very challenging conditions (high tempo, temperature, shock, vibrations, etc.). The FAC
can be armoured against small arms fire and can be transported into theater on a mother vessel in davits. The FAC’s range can be easily extended by using fuel bags.

Length o.a. 15.90 m
Beam 4.00 m
Draught(approx.) 0.80 m

Speed 30 knots
Range at cruising speed 200 nm

2x Diesel Engines (Several options)
2x Gearbox
2x Waterjets or sterndrive
Bow ramp

The fast assault craft can be fitted with a wide range of Sensors &

Much that I admire all the work that the Dutch do when it comes to shipbuilding, I have to admit they're NOT so original when it comes to NAMING said ships. Honestly, recycling names again and again and again gets...well, BORING!
Well it seems the Dutch Defense spending will go up(finally and long overdue)

If correct we would be going to 1.8% BNP

"De krijgsmacht krijgt er jaarlijks zo’n 3 miljard euro bij "

"The armed forces receive around 3 billion euros annually extra"


"With the extra billions for Defense, says an insider, 'the cry for help has been heard' that the armed forces previously let out. Yet the hefty bag of money does not meet the minimum requirement of 4 billion that generals and other leaders previously laid down. This amount was needed to clear all the backlogs and to align expenditure with the EU average. To meet NATO's standard of 2 percent of gross domestic product, at least 5 billion would be needed."

But a great step in the right way ;)

Subject to the accuracy in this one article and by this I mean in particular the annual increase of 3 mjd (and that is not meant + 3 mjd during the cabinet period), then we go from 12.5 billion to 15.5 billion, I think that is something like 1.8% of GDP. (estimate)
Given the lead times on ships, if we can't get our recruiting in order by the time ships are ready, maybe we can't have a navy?
Or just recruit for the ships we have planned and not worry about pie in the sky ideas of a amphibious capability that we never had to begin with. Once we crew all our planned ships by all means crew all the classes we would like to have.
Or just recruit for the ships we have planned and not worry about pie in the sky ideas of a amphibious capability that we never had to begin with. Once we crew all our planned ships by all means crew all the classes we would like to have.
Ah... the "we don't have it now, therefore we will never need it".

With the pivot to the Asia-Pacific region, not having a capability to move troops and equipment on our own ships is a weakness that the CAF/RCN should be looking to fix, not looking for excuses to not bother with.
Move troops on our own ships, to Asia ???

When you find me a single Canadian Army unit willing to twiddle its thumbs, packed like sardines, for three to four weeks, just to get somewhere in Asia instead of flying there, you can talk to us about Phibs. If it is just moving their equipment for re-uniting at location, you don't need expensive, sophisticated amphibious warships - you need Ro-Ro merchant vessels.

Or would you prefer that we become like the Americans and forward deploy a few thousand soldiers at sea at all time? Again, I'd like to see who in the Canadian Army would agree to that.