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Dutch ships and designs and the possibilities for Canada

That's good to hear.  Last I heard they were barely serviceable due to lack of parts.  They worked but if something broke, well it might very well have stayed broke.
So we went from this.(design 2019)

1-multi mission Bay gone

2-Rhibs 7 mtrs instead of 12 mtrs Frisc

3-No possibillity to increase the number of VLS cells.

Although  If you need extra VLS, you can also choose to place the Adaptable Deck Launcher on the hangar.



4-Bow screw gone



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To This;(final design 24/06/20)

133 mtrs,5500 tonns ASW frigate(replacement M-class)

This is what certain to be on the ship:

This is what's set about systems on board(a lot is unknown)

A few systems are certain. Zuiddam: "ESSM Block 2 is simply in the order. So there will be a VLS [vertical launcher, ] and you have to control that chain. You do that with sensors based on AWWS, which are now being developed with the latest techniques and latest Threat Scenarios. The same system will be deployed on the German MKS 180 frigates, including APAR Block 2. " This makes the new frigates a big step forward compared to the M frigates, which do not have such an advanced radar as APAR. This is therefore the successor of the APAR on the LCFs.

At the heart of the ship is a renewed LFAPS, Low Frequency Active Passive Sonar. A sonar that can ping submarines at low frequencies. Because it is left behind in the water, it is also possible to search under temperature layers. Thanks to the low frequency, submarines can be detected very well. The LFAPS is a largely Dutch development, for which there is very much interest from other countries. However, the Netherlands does not want to share that knowledge with many countries.

Rob Zuiddam is projectleader "replacement M-Class"

Also it seems that there will be a 16 cells Vls,that's the number i keep hearing.

Price is to be around the 500 million Euros mark.


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And this is also interesting:

International interest
And maybe there will be more than four. Because there is certainly one seriously interested "from Europe" to participate. De Waard and Zuiddam cannot say which country it concerns. "It is not public," says Zuiddam. "But a formal letter has been sent by that country. So we have to wait a while, although it can be completed within six months."

It is not new that there is interest from abroad in the replacement of the M-frigates. However, the interest is so concrete. Countries such as Portugal (which is very satisfied with the M-frigates and the current modernization) and Norway (which had ideas to replace the sunken frigate Helge Ingstad with two new frigates) have been mentioned for some time.

If three European countries purchase the same new frigates, this is very good news for the project and a special event in the history of European frigate construction

If this would happen,more countries bying the vMFF,a Batch 2 is possible(maybe replace the Hollands for 2 more of these "puppies" and 2 smaller patrol vessels,like the Stan Patrol 5509)
1 step closer to our new MCM vessels;

Belgian-Dutch Mine Counter Measure (MCM) Program Achieves New Milestone

On May 23, a new contractual milestone was reached as part of the Belgian-Dutch Mine Counter Measure (MCM) program: Exactly one year after notification of the contract in 2019, the program successfully passed the "Systems Functional Review" phase.

In the midst of the COVID-19 health crisis, the teams of Belgium Naval & Robotics and of the binational defense project have reached a new milestone: “Systems Functional Review”. This evaluation makes it possible to validate the functional and architectural studies of all the systems of MCM vessels developed by Naval Group such as computer networks, electrical installations, propulsion systems or combat systems, as well as those of all unmanned systems developed by ECA Group. This review also focused on the system of systems that provides mission management, communications and cybersecurity, as well as on the integration of the unmanned systems aboard the ship.

“This milestone represents an important step because it demonstrates that the systems architecture of the armed ship meets the functional requirements of our Belgian and Dutch customers,”

Eric Perrot, MCM program director at Naval Group.

“The requirement and the rigor of the client when passing these milestones are essential; we can thus approach the next phases of the program in good conditions”

Jean-Louis Sambarino, MCM program director at ECA Group.

“The COVID-19 challenge was resolutely taken up and mastered by Belgium Naval & Robotics and our binational project team. The flexibility, diligence and professionalism of both parties were the ingredients necessary for the success of this important step in the contractual deadlines. The constructive atmosphere and expertise of Belgium Naval & Robotics inspires confidence in the prospect of the next milestone this fall. “

Commander Claude Bultot, program director for the Belgian and Dutch navies

Next phase: Preliminary Design Review

In charge of the preliminary design of the ships, Naval Group works in close collaboration with Kership who will carry out the detailed design of the ships and their construction. Kership’s activities will start after passing the Preliminary Design Review milestone, which is scheduled for December 2020.

The contract for twelve MCM vessels for the Belgian and Dutch navies will span over ten years. After a design period of three years, Belgium Naval & Robotics will move on to the production phase of these ships and unmanned systems, with an initial delivery scheduled for 2024. Six ships will be delivered to the Belgian navy and six to the Dutch navy ; They will be equipped with complete drone systems (Toolbox) containing a total of more than a hundred underwater, surface and aerial drones entirely dedicated to mine hunting.

Belgian-Dutch Mine Counter Measure (MCM) Program Achieves New Milestone - Naval News
Dutch JSS Karel Doorman Set Sails To The Caribbean For COVID-19 Relief Mission

The Royal Netherlands Navy's HNLMS Karel Doorman set sails for the Caribbean this morning. The Joint Logistic Support Ship (JSS) has been tasked by the Dutch Ministry of Defense to support civilian authorities in fighting the COVID-19 if the situation calls for it.


The JSS vessel departed Den Helder naval base for an initial period of 3 months. As soon as it reaches the Caribbean waters, the Dutch islands located there will be able to rely on a versatile and quickly deployable capacity. For example, Karel Doorman can assist with logistics support so that the islanders receive food. In addition, the vessel can support the coastguard with maritime border surveillance if desired. The vessel can also serve as a base. For example, landing personnel and equipment quickly to support the local authorities in maintaining public order. The Karel Doorman also has medical facilities to support the local health care in non-COVID-related emergency care.

2 Cougar transport helicopters are deployed aboard the JSS. They may be used for medical transport and medical evacuations. The ship also deployed with medical teams: 1 with surgical capacity, the other for basic shore care. Drones from the army and navy may provide situation assessment in the area. Marine units are part of this deployment, along with their vehicles and landing craft, providing a transport capacity in the area. If necessary, an additional marines unit may be flown in. The ship even has a hurricane emergency kit with it.
Sad news a Dutch NH-90 helicopter crashed yesterday near Aruba,killing it's pilot and tactical officer.

R.I.P For the deceased.

Karel Doorman said:
Sad news a Dutch NH-90 helicopter crashed yesterday near Aruba,killing it's pilot and tactical officer.

R.I.P For the deceased.


Good lord!  My condolences.  Love and shared tears sent from Canada.

Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding signed a contract with Rohde & Schwarz for the delivery and installation of internal and external communication systems for the Royal Netherlands Navy’s Combat Support Ship, Den Helder.

The Royal Netherlands Navy’s (RNLN) new Combat Support Ship (CSS), Den Helder, to be built by Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (DSNS), will strengthen the navy’s replenishment capacity at sea. Delivery of the ship is scheduled for the second quarter of 2024.

DSNS signed a contract with Rohde & Schwarz Benelux B.V. for the delivery and installation of a state-of-the-art integrated communications system for the RNLN’s CSS, Den Helder.

With the contract, the RNLN will receive a system based on proven technology and standardized to provide commonality across the Dutch naval fleet. For more than 20 years, the RNLN has been using Rohde & Schwarz communications systems on their vessels with high level reliability and performance during daily operations. This commonality offers not only crew familiarity, but also optimizes training, maintenance and many other processes.

Arjan Risseeuw, Project Director of the CSS at DSNS states: “Rohde & Schwarz have a good track record in delivering their equipment to Royal Netherlands Navy vessels. We have collaborated with them before, on the Joint Support Ship HNLMS Karel Doorman, for which the Defence Materiel Organisation acted as intermediary for the Rohde & Schwarz equipment it purchased. I am looking forward to working directly with Rohde & Schwarz on this project in order to provide the CSS with a good communication suite.”

Mischa van Santen, Sales Manager at Rohde & Schwarz Benelux states: “Rohde & Schwarz Benelux will act as the communications system integrator for DSNS. Our local engineering team at Utrecht will make sure that we deliver according schedule and budget as well as that the system is supported through life by our Dutch personnel. Rohde & Schwarz Benelux currently also executes work together with Damen Shipyards in Den Helder for the current refit programs of the RNLN support ship, HNLMS Pelikaan, as well as the Hydrographic vessels, HNLMS Snellius and HNLMS Luymes.”

For the CSS Rohde & Schwarz will supply a fully integrated communications system, including R&S M3SR software defined radios (R&S Series4100 HF and R&S Series4400 VHF/UHF).

Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding has signed two contracts with the Dutch company Newthex for the supply of doors and a hatch to the Combat Support Ship (CSS) Sr. Ms. Den Helder of the Royal Navy (KM).

One contract concerns the supply of hydraulically operated skin doors, which can close the main entrances, walkways and shore connections. The other contract is for upward hinged elevator doors and a container hatch.

Newthex will deliver these goods in April 2021. The doors are tailor-made for the CSS. They are of high quality, water and gas tight and fire resistant.

Newthex has a strong focus on sustainability. Other features of the doors are their user-friendliness, ease of maintenance and high automation.

The company has worked with Damen on defence and security projects in the past. In addition, Newthex regularly collaborates with Damen Yachting to deliver its high-quality products to the luxury superyacht market.

Newthex is based in Sappermeer in Groningen. The company employs about 20 people and prides itself on offering dutch solutions. The production of the steel structures and the purchase of the associated hydraulic and electrical components take place entirely in the Netherlands.

Damen-contract met Newthex opent deur naar Nederlandse kwaliteitsoplossingen voor CSS
Dutch MoD Orders Additional NS100, Scout Mk3 Radars
The Netherlands Defence Materiel Organisation and Thales signed a contract for the delivery of an NS100 radar, seven Scout Mk3 radars and an IFF system.
Nathan Gain 16 Jul 2020
Thales press release

The NS100 dual-axis multi-beam surveillance radar will replace the Variant radar currently deployed on HNLMS Johan de Witt, one of the Landing Platform Docks (LPD) in service in the Royal Netherlands Navy. The Sea Acceptance Tests are scheduled to take place in 2023.

A major reason for selecting the NS100, next to its unparalleled performance, is fleet-wise logistic advantages. The Royal Netherlands Navy already operates the latest generation of Thales 4D AESA radars on the majority of its vessels and, given the radar’s flexible architecture, it is easy to offer through–life introduction of new capabilities thereby future-proofing the radar. The NS100 on the Royal Netherlands Navy’s other LPD, HNLMS Rotterdam, will be updated, so that the radars on both LPDs will be identical.

Complete article at Dutch MoD orders additional NS100, Scout Mk3 radars - Naval News

VARIANT is a multipurpose, short/medium range 2D radar, simultaneously operating in the X and C-band for air and surface surveillance. It can track surface targets up to 70km and air targets up to 120km. Its principal role is as an automatic, fast reaction time radar sensor supplying targeting data to weapon systems. The system is completed by an integrated Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) surface surveillance radar (SCOUT).

The NS100 is a medium to long range 3D E-/F-band AESA radar (Hollandse Signaalapparaten/Thales brands it as a 4D surveillance radar) and although its clearly an improvement over the Variant, the Variant is still capable and good enough for most navies. Its for example superior compared to the MW08. So i wonder if HSA still offer it for export.
which country will be the 3rd country? replacement M-class program.

There's a lot of interest,it seems(and confirmed) in the new to be build replacement class for the M's.

Greece(but in talks with France,Belharra class),but still interested(plus there's no country in the world which has more Dutch ships,including The Netherlands(go figure)

Portugal is also mentioned,which is very happy with their M-class frigates(and the modernizatopn program of the 1st,2nd one is in Den Helder undergoing this program.

Norway,probably to replace the whole Fridtjof Nansen class,which could mean 4 or 5 new frigates.

There are also a couple"outsiders",Chili and Poland(but that's not serious for now)

During interviews (Januari and June)with the director of the DMO,vice-admiral De Waard confirmed that there was a formal letter from 1 of the 3 countries mentioned to join the program.(which will be confirmed within 6 months )

exciting times here in The Netherlands ;)

Article is in Dutch.


How about this for an ice-breaker?

The Nuyina is being towed to Vlissingen to be fitted out and undergo seatrials.

Impressive vessel,btw.


Some news"fresh from the presses"(a possibility)

'Talks on the sale of M-frigates Van Speijk and Van Amstel to Greece'


This can of course have far-reaching consequences for the KM, but it can also allow the vMFF to enter into service more quickly, and with an order of 4 new Greek boats as a replacement it could also be interesting due to the longer production (and lower price) to conclude a batch 2 contract with Damen for 2 additional FFFs after 2022. The order can also be adjusted:
- Ship 1 NL 2026
- Ship 2 BE 2027
- Ship 3 NL 2027
- Ship 4 BE 2028
- Ship 5 GR 2028
- Ship 6 GR 2029
- Ship 7 NL 2029
- Ship 8 GR 2030
- Ship 9 NL 2030
- Ship 10 GR 2030

Very much accelerated I see the first ship not being put into service but we can accelerate the follow-up production, I have brought the first two boats 1 year early above and the other 2 accelerated so that they can both be put into use 2 years earlier than the current schedule. For this, the price at Damen does not have to fall too much for the first 4 boats but the freed money is put into accelerated construction and delivery.

The best part, of course, is if this deal goes through that we can snare the Greeks for a series of 2 to 4 vLCFs as a follow-up order. In this way we connect the NL defence industry for several decades to give a good and well-known customer a win-win.

If we can transfer our current 2 MFF's to the Greeks in the first half of 2021, this will obviously create a (big) gap in our fleet, but it could also give the KM the opportunity to focus on the ongoing operations and ensure that there is sufficient personnel for the operations in which the crew of the new FFFs can gradually also work towards the new ships.

News is not confirmed,

But it seems the Greeks want an "interim"solution,possibly"M's" and a long term solution ,possibly replacement "M's".(vMFF)
Here's an interesting piece about the A-26,also explains a bit about the Walrus replacement programme:

Karel Doorman said:
Here's an interesting piece about the A-26,also explains a bit about the Walrus replacement programme:


The article mentions that the new Walrus design from Damen/Saab is larger then the A26 design because it's supposed to be an expeditionary submarine.  Any details on that?  This may be a contender for a RCN replacement with the Australian submarine program.
Underway said:
The article mentions that the new Walrus design from Damen/Saab is larger then the A26 design because it's supposed to be an expeditionary submarine.  Any details on that?  This may be a contender for a RCN replacement with the Australian submarine program.

Probably something like the Oceanic ER(extended range)version,but there's not much known as of yet.

Some things that are known are these:

-Length about 73 mtrs(so slightly longer then Walrus)
-Diameter about 8mtrs(compareble to Walrus)
-displacement around 2900 tons(200 tons more then Walrus)
Plenty of info about this spread out about this. Mentioned in multiple RCN threads too (by myself as well). Interesting platform with impressive capabilities. I hope the A26-Oceanic replaces the Victorias.
VLS, Multi-Mission Portal for UUVs and special swimmers.