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Drunk B.C. RCMP officer who passed out in drive-thru keeps job

Spencer100

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All I want to say is you guys are all correct. And being an officer of the crown does even make such things worse. But over the last few years I have very much soften my thinking on these things. We have a mental health crisis in this country. I don't think many realize the full scope and size of the problem. I would give guy a second chance too with conditions. Being a police officer right now is not roses. And many other jobs too.

As aside a had some contracted out for work at my house just before the last long week. The contractor had a younger kid (25ish) work at house. My wife calls me at work and says the kid is doing strange things. Long story short he fell off the wagon been good for a year. Drug and booze. First I call the contractor and told him he need to first find the kid and get him safe. After that I did tell the contractor the kid can come back to work after detox at my house. He needs to know that he has something to look forward too or he will not have anything to work towards.

I am not say million chances but if people are working to something we need support them.

Covid has been very hard on people. Some very much more than others. It is in no way a equal event to everyone.
 

Booter

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Sorry. I’m a police officer of several decades who has had both a significant substance issues and ptsd that took my first marriage and almost my life.

I was always still responsible for my actions amd knew the standard of behaviour. If I had deviated I would have had to retire rather than do all this nonsense.

Even if it was the work that broke me- it doesn’t owe me a paycheque. Maybe help me land on my feet- but not as a cop. I am biased here though- I can admit that.
 

CBH99

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Because the RCMP need the people. I’m sure that is one reason.
I had 3 friends apply for the RCMP all at once. All had similar disclosure forms, all had worked together at my current side-job for years together.

2 of the 3 were hired, fairly punctually. The process went fairly smoothly, they were successful at Depot, and are now RCMP officers here in Alberta.

The 3rd who applied? Deferred for 3 years. Why? She didn’t declare all of her tip money on her taxes, and therefore that was tax evasion. (I guarantee the other 2 didn’t either, as I don’t think any of us kept track of our tips.)



They say they need the people, and keep lowering standards so a larger pool of folks can apply. But then they turn around & defer good applicants for stupid reasons.
 

Spencer100

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Sorry. I’m a police officer of several decades who has had both a significant substance issues and ptsd that took my first marriage and almost my life.

I was always still responsible for my actions amd knew the standard of behaviour. If I had deviated I would have had to retire rather than do all this nonsense.

Even if it was the work that broke me- it doesn’t owe me a paycheque. Maybe help me land on my feet- but not as a cop. I am biased here though- I can admit that.
Fair enough. I don't know what the right answer is.

I know we have a problem just looking beyond this case.
 

daftandbarmy

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Sorry. I’m a police officer of several decades who has had both a significant substance issues and ptsd that took my first marriage and almost my life.

I was always still responsible for my actions amd knew the standard of behaviour. If I had deviated I would have had to retire rather than do all this nonsense.

Even if it was the work that broke me- it doesn’t owe me a paycheque. Maybe help me land on my feet- but not as a cop. I am biased here though- I can admit that.

Check This Out GIF
 

Booter

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Fair enough. I don't know what the right answer is.

I know we have a problem just looking beyond this case.
100% I agree with you. On both posts actually.

I guess I just don’t think, and you aren’t saying this, that the answer is passing by going “poor fella- well back to biz as usual” and that’s an oversimplification of treatment but how do I take someone that resists arrest, even drunk, so fundamentally busted and then ever put them back under the stress of the job? Even if they get better, why would I encourage that?

There is a crisis. You’re 100% correct.
 

Jarnhamar

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I am not say million chances but if people are working to something we need support them.

Covid has been very hard on people. Some very much more than others. It is in no way a equal event to everyone.

This guy could have easily ran over a bunch of kids. Considering he was so drunk he tried to fight off other RCMP members he could have just as easily pulled out his loaded pistol and blew away the McDonalds staff who spent 20 minutes trying to wake him up.

He got a second chance by not crashing his vehicle and dying or pulling his gun on the police.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with telling this nice guy who has some issues that he doesn't have a future as a police officer. He shouldn't have a future as a police officer regardless of how sorry he is or how quickly he accepted responsibility for his actions. I always laugh at that, accepting responsibility for ones actions. We teach children to do that, but we're supposed to be impressed when generals or doctors or police officers do it?


I'm very curious why he wasn't charged with DUI, why the crown stayed the charges of failing to provide a breathalyzer test, and why the RCMP officers whose houses he stopped at drunk didn't do anything about him.
 

GR66

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A big question I have is whether a non-police officer would have had the same treatment if they had done the same thing. I have no insight on how BC courts typically proceed in DUI/resisting arrest type cases but my spider-senses tell me that a random civilian may not have gotten off quite so easily.

As far as him keeping his job goes I guess I just have difficulty with someone that violently resisted their own arrest continuing in a job where they will be in a position to use potentially lethal force against others doing the exact same thing.
 

Booter

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BC and impaired driving charges are a mystery on how the crown proceeds- it’s pretty normal for them to not bother. “No substantial likelihood of conviction”.

Why the other members didn’t do anything as they drove from house to house. It’s a struggle for people close to people struggling to know how to help- what you turn an eye to, what you bring up later… it’s not “right” but it’s reality. He was moving by team mates houses…they have to work together the next morning on potentially critical incidents.

You could say “well they wouldn’t do that for Joe public” and that may well be, and it might not be right. But I’ve cut breaks to struggling guys and brought them back to CFB Edmonton- with my card and instructions that they dodged a bullet written on it.

When a guy is sick from the job, and you see it in them, and it in yourself, the response isn’t so clean- in practicality. According to the law and expectation it is. But In a human way it isn’t.

Now…since they thought from his behaviour that he may have stolen the truck, and he resisted arrest, his breaks might have looked a lot different. 🤷‍♀️
 

OldSolduer

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With regard to his future employment will he be employed more in an administrative capacity vice a patrol member? Kinda like the canteen corporal or kit shop guy?
 

Booter

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With regard to his future employment will he be employed more in an administrative capacity vice a patrol member? Kinda like the canteen corporal or kit shop guy?
I mean I can’t say. But…in my experience he ll be back in his substantive job. There have been instances like that- where they wind up working in an HQ- but my gut says that won’t be the case. It is more common that they continue in their normal job.

But I can’t say for certain.

He is out of the dog program though. Which would have taken him close to a decade to get into.
 
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Kat Stevens

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I dunno man. When I stood in front of the judge for .10 there were a bunch of people there to say what a swell guy I was, outstanding employee, recently retired veteran with PTSD.
Crown prosecutor to judge; "Fuck that guy, hit him as hard as you can! Then kick him till he bleeds!"
Judge to Crown; "Agreed, fuck that guy!"
No friends amongst the cats.
 

Booter

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I dunno man. When I stood in front of the judge for .10 there were a bunch of people there to say what a swell guy I was, outstanding employee, recently retired veteran with PTSD.
Crown prosecutor to judge; "Fuck that guy, hit him as hard as you can! Then kick him till he bleeds!"
Judge to Crown; "Agreed, fuck that guy!"
No friends amongst the cats.
You’re SURE someone told them you were a good guy? I’m super confused.

I have leniency because of the employment requirements of a police officer when they’re charged. I don’t agree with them generally. Assaults associated to arrests are the one place that I can see it- the line can be very close to what is assault and what’s justified force.
 

Kat Stevens

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You’re SURE someone told them you were a good guy? I’m super confused.

I have leniency because of the employment requirements of a police officer when they’re charged. I don’t agree with them generally. Assaults associated to arrests are the one place that I can see it- the line can be very close to what is assault and what’s justified force.
Drunk driving is drunk driving, regardless of employment. It effected my job too, but tough shit for me, and it should have been tough shit for this guy.
 

Booter

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What happens to his dog, now that he is removed from the dog handling team?
I haven’t been a handler. I’ve seen guys have to leave the program for a few reasons though- it depends on where the dog is in their career. Can be pretty wide open.

I am outside my lane on that though
 

Booter

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Drunk driving is drunk driving, regardless of employment. It effected my job too, but tough shit for me, and it should have been tough shit for this guy.
But again- the crown elected not to pursue the charge.
 

Booter

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In case anyone is interested

From the decision- he was also conduct disciplined on two charges in 2015. (Non criminal- JUST code of conduct) Unfortunately those ones are not available online.

They say unrelated- but that doesn’t sound like spotless record. Two disciplines- then criminal resist arrest- and more conduct?
 

Kat Stevens

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You’re SURE someone told them you were a good guy? I’m super confused.

I have leniency because of the employment requirements of a police officer when they’re charged. I don’t agree with them generally. Assaults associated to arrests are the one place that I can see it- the line can be very close to what is assault and what’s justified force.
You know you're up against it when three of the four parties involved (police, crown, and judge) are all government paycheques, and little old lawyerless me is on the other side. bringing a spork to a sword fight. This guy had backup.
 
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