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Current Trends in CF Releases

Journeyman

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There seems to be an increase in troops leaving the CF. I'm seeing fewer soldiers available for exercise and I've heard of one Infantry company being stood down for lack of soldiers.

Beyond the generic "I joined for the 'adventure' of Afghanistan and that's gone now," I was wondering what may be driving troops to pull the pin and/or what could be done to keep soldiers in.
 
Are we talking Reg, Res or both?

Personally I pulled the pin a month ago on the reserves, since I had reached my 12 years, was no longer interested in finishing my PLQ, and I landed a lucrative job as a civilian contractor in the sandbox.
 
I'm sure that the economy, particularly in the oil patch, has downgraded the CF's status as "employer of choice' in general.
 
Hatchet Man said:
Are we talking Reg, Res or both?
Both. Having a bizarre notion that we're all on the same team  ;)  there may be lessons available for all.
 
On the reserves side, I've seen some release of SNCOs who've been around a long damn time, but haven't done much in the last five or six years. The new generation of younger NCOs with recent operational tours flooding both the mess and the more senior positions in the regiment has been a bit of a disruption to the social order that the reserves have always had going. I get the sense that in some isntances these guys just don't enjoy it anymore because they ossified in their position ten years back...
 
Brihard said:
On the reserves side, I've seen some release of SNCOs who've been around a long damn time, but haven't done much in the last five or six years. The new generation of younger NCOs with recent operational tours flooding both the mess and the more senior positions in the regiment has been a bit of a disruption to the social order that the reserves have always had going. I get the sense that in some isntances these guys just don't enjoy it anymore because they ossified in their position ten years back...

That's an unintended consequence of our participation in any protracted major mission, with both a positive and negative side.  The positive side is that a lot of old practises get vailidated or cast aside as a result of "user-testing" in combat.  What emerges is a stronger, more capable and competent force.

The negative side is that if you weren't one of the BTDT generation in the most recent conflict, your opinion and experiences didn't count for much any longer.  It happened after WWII, Korea and the UNPROFOR days in the Balkans.  It's happening now with Afghanistan and it will happen to the Afghanistan vets after the next big conflict wraps up and they aren't part of the BTDT guys..
 
12 years from now the young guys will be moaning about the old guys still claiming to have sand in their boots.
 
Haggis said:
That's an unitnended consequence of tour participation in nay protracted major mission, with both a positive and negative side.  The positve side is that a lot of old practises get vailidated or cast aside as a result of "user-testing" in combat.  What emerges, is a stronger, more capable and competent force.

The negative side is that if you weren't one of the BTDT generation in the most recent conflict, your opinion and experiences didn't count for much any longer.  It happened after WWII, Korea and the UNPROFOR days in the Balkans.  It's happening now with Afghanistan and it will happen to the Afghanistan vets after the next big conflict wraps up and they aren't part of the BTDT guys..

Yup. Please know that I'm not trying to make value judgments here or anything- just calling it how I've seen it in a few instances. Afghanistan set the highest tide seen in a while. Of course it'll be surpassed at some point in the indeterminate future. In the interim we will continue to see unexpected second and third order effects.
 
Hmm, perhaps this could create more opportunities for new recruits and enlisters.. unless the budged gets slashed next spring i guess. :-\
 
B.Dias said:
Hmm, perhaps this could create more opportunities for new recruits and enlisters.. unless the budged gets slashed next spring i guess. :-\

Why does this 17 year old's post remind me of our old RCN mess toasts?

"A Bloody war or a sickly Season"  >:D
 
I think canada not being in a combat role has a hugh effect on why soldiers are leaving. I was told during war the line up for recruitment is long, but gets shorter as chance for combat dewindles. I know some guys are staying in because they keep saying " another combat tour may show up, and i like to keep their foot in the door". Still some quit because they are sick of the same exercises year after year. To do fun stuff like a jump course cost money. People do not want to sit around battalion lines wasting time playing cards or on a tuesday sitting around for 45 minutes wainting for an O group.
 
Hatchet Man said:
Are we talking Reg, Res or both?

Personally I pulled the pin a month ago on the reserves, since I had reached my 12 years, was no longer interested in finishing my PLQ, and I landed a lucrative job as a civilian contractor in the sandbox.

Where are you working at in the sandbox?  I am in Kabul, if your close by, maybe we could hook up or a coffee.

Cheers
Pop
 
From the RegF infantry side, I've seen the majority of the people I came through with leave in the last two years or so; their tour was done, and they feel like they're wasting their life sitting around Bn lines waiting for courses that never seem to come. A lot of them just want to get out of Gagetown as quickly as possible, and for a lot of them the only option for that is release.

I've had freinds on the ResF side of the fence say that now that Afghanistan has wound down, the peace-time garrison BS has already taken hold and they see no reason to put up with it anymore.
 
For those who find challenges and interest in the job now, those will be the leaders in a few years.

Back in the late 90s, I knew many people who are now departing the CF, often at higher ranks.
I was instructing one course and had one individual walk into my course in uniform (civvies authorized).
First comment out of my mouth in front of everyone was, "what they hell is that on your shoulder?"
Shake his hand, congratz ect...but the damage was done. I knew him as a MS and he was a CPO2 then
now a CPO1.

My point is that for those who remain and are worth their salt, there is not much need to worry about the rate of releases.
 
Snaketnk said:
From the RegF infantry side, I've seen the majority of the people I came through with leave in the last two years or so; their tour was done, and they feel like they're wasting their life sitting around Bn lines waiting for courses that never seem to come. A lot of them just want to get out of Gagetown as quickly as possible, and for a lot of them the only option for that is release.

As far as courses that never seem to come that must be a geographical thing. Recently we've run/sent guys on;
Helicopter Insertion Instructor, Conduct After Capture Instructor, Close Quarters Combat, Close Quarters Combat Instructor, recce patrolman, sniper, pathfinder, multiple in-house jump serials, drivers courses, basic and intermediate comms course (advance comms, freefall and arctic adviser coming up).

That's just off the top of my head.

I've had freinds on the ResF side of the fence say that now that Afghanistan has wound down, the peace-time garrison BS has already taken hold and they see no reason to put up with it anymore.
I don't see the reserves having ever left the peace-time garrison BS. They've sent soldiers on operations who've returned to reserve world and have had to deal with being reservists again.

I've noticed a huge sense of entitlement with full time infantry soldiers. An hour of PT an hour of "work" and if it's Friday and 10 minutes after 1 their bitching and crying about why they're still at work.

I don't think our young fresh out of school and into the uniform soldiers have an idea about just how hard working at a civilian job can be.


Lots of people did join for the prospect of fighting in a war and now that it's over they've lost interest.
 
ObedientiaZelum said:
Lots of people did join for the prospect of fighting in a war and now that it's over they've lost interest.

Look around the world.  Another war will be by soon enough.
 
kratz said:
Why does this 17 year old's post remind me of our old RCN mess toasts?

"A Bloody war or a sickly Season"  >:D

Hey.... c'mon now... at least I'm interested in the military, politics, and global conflict.... etc. unlike the many around my age that are only interested in say..video games or getting body kits placed on cars.  :2c:
Respectfully,

 
Just out of curiosity, what's the average service life expectancy for a reg force or PRes type? as a CIC officer, I had heard it said we average five years before "swallowing the anchor." thoughts?
 
For me, getting out was the result of a combination of factors.  Without getting into the details, lack of recognition for work done, and a timely opportunity to take a public service position with more responsibility and a higher rate of pay made leaving the CF a done deal.
 
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