Afghan Air Force Needs Planes, Parts

[GAP]

Afghan Air Force Needs Planes, Parts
By JASON STRAZIUSO
Article Link

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — The faded green Soviet-era Mi-17 helicopter hovered 30 feet off the ground while veteran pilot Amin Jan tested the controls. Then he zoomed upward and banked left, filling the side window with a view of Kabul's mud-brick homes below.

The 15-minute flight was a smooth, uneventful success. But Afghanistan's decimated air force is struggling to get back off the ground, weighed down by a tiny fleet of aging aircraft, a lack of spare parts, and until only six months ago, no international power to show it the way.

The U.S.-NATO-Afghan campaign against a strengthening Taliban insurgency relies heavily on Western airpower to transport troops to remote battlefields and to target militants in bombing runs.

Afghanistan's rebuilt army is shouldering an increasing share of the ground combat. But its air force will take years to develop, dimming the prospect that the country will be able to look after its own security any time soon.

The U.S. military began training the Afghan Air Corps last spring, and Air Force Brig. Gen. Jay H. Lindell said he was excited by the Afghans' "desire, willingness and eagerness to learn."

"I guess what I'm not happy with is the state of where we are, the existing equipment that we do have, the state of the supply system to furnish spare parts for the equipment," Lindell said. "We're going to work to improve that to try to maintain what they do have as long as we can until they can get the new, more modernized equipment."

Afghanistan's air force consists of seven Soviet-era Mi-17 transport helicopters and six Mi-35 gunships, all approaching 20 years old. Of its five transport planes, three are out of service. The average age of its pilots is 43, Lindell said, an experienced group but one with few up-and-coming students.

Though the Air Corps this summer completed its first mission — moving troops into a battlefield landing zone — it is nowhere big enough to be a reliable complement to the Afghan army.
More on link

 

[geo]

http://www.aviationtoday.com/rw/military/attack/15165.html

Thursday, August 23, 2007

Czech helicopters could be making their way to the Afghanistan military by the September-October time frame, according to the Prague Daily Monitor. Six Russian-built transport Mi-17s and six combat Mi-24s are now being repaired in the Czech Republic. Russia has consented to the aircraft’s export in negotiations with the Czech Republic. The Mi-17s are to become a part of the Afghan air force, according to a Czech official. Russia must give its consent before the aircraft may be transported to a third country. Russia has not yet consented although Czech officials expect support for the deal. For related news

giving the Afghans high tech aircraft of any sort is a disaster waiting for a place to happen.
Let them cut their teeth on these relatively old and lowtech aircraft.

 

[medicineman]

I hear that there are some spare F-14 parts for sale... >

MM

 

[midget-boyd91]

I hear that there are some spare F-14 parts for sale... >

MM

:rofl:
Hmmmm... I seem to have wet myself, laughing.

 

[geo]

F14 parts...

Nope, darned neighbours have 1st dibbs on them ... or else!

 

[MikeM]

Have to be able to walk before you can run, once they get their army sorted out and self sufficient, then one day they can maybe get some AC.

 

[medaid]

Hold on, they don't even have AFVs yet, and they already want to FLY?

We need infuse some logic and sense into these people ASAP. I will not doubt that they are capable warriors on land. They are willing to learn, but they are not getting that quickly. To think that all of sudden they are ready for flight is more then just a little doubtful. A few questions to consider:

1) Where are they going to get the equipment?
2) Where are they going to receive the training?
3) Who will initially staff their Sqns and Wings?
4) Who will come up with SOPs for them?

Interesting eh?

 

[aesop081]

Glad all you army folks chimed in

Just like building their army takes time, so does building an air force. If they start taking small steps NOW, they will be ready in the future. Start training the people who will lead the Afghan AF now, the rest will follow in good time. It will take years to train pilots, technicians and every other trade an AF needs, nows the time to start....start small but start nonetheless

 

[aesop081]

1) Where are they going to get the equipment?

Well, let me see...the new Iraqi AF got UH-1s and C-130s donated to them from the US and some Russian equipment donated by other countries to get them started. No reason why the same cannot be done for the Ghan.

2) Where are they going to receive the training?

Here in canada at NFTC could be one possibility or in the US like alot of Asian countries do.......

3) Who will initially staff their Sqns and Wings?

Western countries can do that until such time as Afghans themselves have been trained to do the Job, hence why we have to starts NOW

4) Who will come up with SOPs for them?

Gee wiz, where do you think we came up with alot of our stuf.......

 

[medaid]

Glad all you army folks chimed in

Just like building their army takes time, so does building an air force. If they start taking small steps NOW, they will be ready in the future. Start training the people who will lead the Afghan AF now, the rest will follow in good time. It will take years to train pilots, technicians and every other trade an AF needs, nows the time to start....start small but start nonetheless

I'm Navy now mate  Rum, Sodomy, etc etc etc

Okay, maybe I WAS too quick to judge, but my questions still stand. We are hard press to turn out pilots of our OWN now, do you think we can lend a hand to the training program for Afghan pilots? Maybe the US will, but we are stepping into another boundary of security sensitive equipment. If we can't ensure who's on our side and whose not on the ground right now, how do we ensure that Pilot Officer Ahmed isn't going to turn his newly acquired attack chopper on those who he was supposed to support, because the baddies have got his family or paid him off?

Just a question, you know?

 

[medaid]

Well, let me see...the new Iraqi AF got UH-1s and C-130s donated to them from the US and some Russian equipment donated by other countries to get them started. No reason why the same cannot be done for the Ghan.

Here in canada at NFTC could be one possibility or in the US like alot of Asian countries do.......

Western countries can do that until such time as Afghans themselves have been trained to do the Job, hence why we have to starts NOW

Gee wiz, where do you think we came up with alot of our stuf.......

1) The Iraqi AF already existed prior to the US taking it over. Flying isn't something new to them. It is new to the Afghanis.

2) Granted.

3) Granted.

4) True, but we haven't just started with flight either. It comes from experience and such. Okay, granted they can learn that too with a helping hand.


Like I said, i was too quick to judge, but I'm just expressing my concerns that's all.

 

[aesop081]

I'm Navy now mate  Rum, Sodomy, etc etc etc

Army or navy its always good to see that the other services know how to run an AF.......If i was to tell people how the army should do things i would be run off this site in short order but thats another rant for another time....

We are hard press to turn out pilots of our OWN now, do you think we can lend a hand to the training program for Afghan pilots?

I didnt say Canada had to do it alone but we can certainly help out.  We train foreign aircrews as it is now ( Pilots and Navs) i'm sure we can train a few Afghans that will form the cadre on which to build the Afghan AF.

Maybe the US will, but we are stepping into another boundary of security sensitive equipment.

The USAF already trains quite a few pilots from many foreing nations at its facilities, go visit Nellis AFB in Nevada and you will see what i mean. Its not like we have to train them with our equipment after all so security, although important can be worked witin to rpduce resullts that are in our own best interest.

 

[aesop081]

1) The Iraqi AF already existed prior to the US taking it over. Flying isn't something new to them. It is new to the Afghanis.

The Afghan AF also existed in the Soviet days.......Its not new to them either.

4) True, but we haven't just started with flight either. It comes from experience and such. Okay, granted they can learn that too with a helping hand.

And it takes alot of years to build that experience. If we start 10 years from now, we have lost 10 years and that means that western air forces have to stay 10 more years.

 

[HItorMiss]

Army or navy its always good to see that the other services know how to run an AF.......If i was to tell people how the army should do things i would be run off this site in short order but thats another rant for another time....

Pretty sure your time with the CER's counts for more then just your CD 


Regarding the Afghan AF why not? Do we (NATO) not already train their Army, supply their Army etc etc why should we not be startin to train and supply the next important element of their Military security. They are a totaly landlocked nation so no need for a Navy but they will in the very near future need to have at least a rudementary AF that can grow on it's own right in time.

 

[medaid]

Well cheerios for answering all of my questions at least

I would never dream of running an AF or tell them how to run it. I was just curious/concerned. But if an apology is required, then consider it proffered. Humbly so.

 

[aesop081]

Pretty sure your time with the CER's counts for more then just your CD 

That was before the war in the desert that seems to have changed so much.  The stuff i learned would have been useful in the Fulda gap but now when i read Afghanistan stuff i feel lost so i tend to stay out of it.

 

[Loachman]

"The average age of its pilots is 43, Lindell said, an experienced group but one with few up-and-coming students."

Apparently, some of them can already fly, and they have some helicopters.

There is a basis already.

It doesn't take long for people to learn to fly half decently. What is required are experienced leaders to supervise them. We just don't know how many of these experienced guys they have, or how good they are.

In any case, we are looking at small numbers, which makes the training programme somewhat easier than training large numbers of Infantry, including leaders from scratch.

The US Army already has a viable training programme for international student helicopter pilots at Fort Rucker. They are used to training students from around the planet, and I'd be highly surprised if training a select few Afghans would be any problem whatsoever.

I would presume that they have similar programmes for training techs and other support staff.

A modest Afghan National Army Aviation component is not an outlandish concept.

I'd start out with utility crews and helicopters, as that task is simpler, and work up to the more complex attack and reconnaissance missions later, starting with the escort role. They could either support their own ground units or integrate with ISAF aviation units, or both.

My concern would be greater on the tech side.

An Aviation OMLT might be an interesting job.

A possible ANA Aviation unit could have an Afghan CO (preferably a pilot), with Afghans serving in other key leadership roles. Officers from Aviation organizations in ISAF countries would serve as deputies. Aircraft captains would also xome from ISAF countries, with Afghans flying as first officers. The maintenance organization would be staffed with senior techs  from ISAF countries and apprentice-level Afghan techs. Over time, the number of ISAF deputies/advisers/tech staff could be reduced, or the more experienced Afghans could be moved to a new Afghan-heavy unit and the process repeated.

While Hips might do initially, I think that donating Chinooks to this organization would be the best course, and Black Hawks as a minimum. We could always use more Chinooks in theatre, and decent machines would make it far easier to attract volunteers to the Aviation OMLT.

 

[geo]

Considering the risk of IEDs and ambush, it makes a lot of sense to develop and maintain a rudimentary airforce or army aviation corp.  Low tech troop transports and gunships will serve this mountainous country well.... IMHO.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Part of the problem is getting recruits with the necessary skills in order to teach how to fly and how interoperate with the other nations there. 20 year old helo’s are almost new compared to most of the Helo’s used by NATO forces. I suspect that the Helo’s are actually older than that though.

I would say keep the air Force small for now, focus on 2 engine transports, small turbo prop 2 seat trainers with weapon pods to build a ground attack squadron and build up a Russian equipped Helo force around the Hips and Hinds. I suspect Russia could sell them rebuilt helo’s and trade in the current ones.

For transports, there are lots of western designs that would work.

Building up a reliable and consistent ground support & repair facility will be tough, you can always hire pilots, but building the culture to properly maintain and supply an Air Force will be the most challenging task facing them.

 

[Loachman]

I don't see them with a need for fixed-wing aircraft for a while. Helicopters would be far more useful immediately.

Avoid Russian stuff. Provide them with the same machines that NATO contingents are operating. It will simplify training and support in the long run. The specific benefit will come from integrating junior Afghan techs and aircrew with experienced personnel from NATO countries. Training a bunch of pilots and techs and letting them loose would be a disaster, and I wouldn't want to force personnel from NATO countries to work with crap machinery. I wouldn't want NATO troops to have to fly in these either.

If we keep giving these guys garbage, there will be an increasing rift between Afghans and us.

There are enough smart, motivated, and literate Afghans to do this, and, obviously, some already are.

Give them something useful, that can be integrated into the overall operation, and we all benefit.

On the fixed-wing side, similar aircrew and groundcrew training and integration should begin as soon as possible. Provision of aircraft could probably wait a little longer.