• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

‘Defence’ doesn’t fit the job of Canada’s military any more. Let’s create a Department of National Safety instead

Good2Golf

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
2,577
Points
1,160
Oh for sure. I'm not saying the provinces and municipalities are paragons of corporate efficiency but, in my opinion, don't have the inertia and massive layers of stifling redundancies, or at least not to the same level. On a very basic level, when I was still gainfully employed, I could have an expense account payment in my bank account in a handful of days, unlike our daughter (a federal employee) who regularly waits several months.
This.

Phoenix. Shared Services Canada. Etc.

All incredibly underwhelming bonafides for the organization that many feel would be the best option to make things better.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
Federal, Provincial or Municipal - who does it best?

I don't know. But, of all the threads I have read on here, the most amazing has always been,

Approximate wait times for pension, release f*ckery, and who to complain to
 

OldTanker

Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
49
Points
430
Oh for sure. I'm not saying the provinces and municipalities are paragons of corporate efficiency but, in my opinion, don't have the inertia and massive layers of stifling redundancies, or at least not to the same level. On a very basic level, when I was still gainfully employed, I could have an expense account payment in my bank account in a handful of days, unlike our daughter (a federal employee) who regularly waits several months.
I wouldn't say its so much an argument regarding who is the least (or most) competent. The issue is the Feds are the ones with all the money. The vast majority of post-disaster funding comes from the Feds, to the provinces, to the municipalities (there is a fancy formula but that's close enough). If the Feds committed even a small fraction for preparedness that they spend compensating the provinces after a disaster, we would be able to make some serious headway in our preparation. But the political glory is in giving out money for recovery (white knight on trusty steed arrives from Ottawa with pockets full of money), so that's where it goes. We probably couldn't be more financially discombobulated when it comes to emergency preparedness. I've had talks with CAOs (city managers) who totally get it, but they are under so much pressure to deal with pressing, current issues there is nothing left over for "optional" activities. In emergency management, virtually every major event is "Roto 0".
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
4,337
Points
1,060
I wouldn't say its so much an argument regarding who is the least (or most) competent. The issue is the Feds are the ones with all the money. The vast majority of post-disaster funding comes from the Feds, to the provinces, to the municipalities (there is a fancy formula but that's close enough). If the Feds committed even a small fraction for preparedness that they spend compensating the provinces after a disaster, we would be able to make some serious headway in our preparation. But the political glory is in giving out money for recovery (white knight on trusty steed arrives from Ottawa with pockets full of money), so that's where it goes. We probably couldn't be more financially discombobulated when it comes to emergency preparedness. I've had talks with CAOs (city managers) who totally get it, but they are under so much pressure to deal with pressing, current issues there is nothing left over for "optional" activities. In emergency management, virtually every major event is "Roto 0".

IIRC that good disaster preparation is already well within the mandates, legislation, zoning and budgets for most levels of government within existing ministries/departments like, you know, construction and maintenance standards for buildings and dykes.

Where these basic leadership requirements are forgotten or neglected, bad things happen. For example:


Remains of fourth Canadian pulled from Florida condo collapse identified by police​


The Broken Promise of the Levees That Failed New Orleans​



In that vein, Calgary is taking steps to address flood mitigation issues identified in 2013 and they don't need a special 'Emergency Preparedness Department' to do it, mainly because it's a whole of government effort - as it should be:

 

OldTanker

Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
49
Points
430
IIRC that good disaster preparation is already well within the mandates, legislation, zoning and budgets for most levels of government within existing ministries/departments like, you know, construction and maintenance standards for buildings and dykes.

Where these basic leadership requirements are forgotten or neglected, bad things happen. For example:


Remains of fourth Canadian pulled from Florida condo collapse identified by police​


The Broken Promise of the Levees That Failed New Orleans​



In that vein, Calgary is taking steps to address flood mitigation issues identified in 2013 and they don't need a special 'Emergency Preparedness Department' to do it, mainly because it's a whole of government effort - as it should be:

Calgary may not have a dedicated department, but they do have probably the best funded and organized municipal emergency management agency in Canada (Calgary Emergency Management Agency (CEMA)). This organization really got its start after the 2013 flood and has been well supported ever since. I don't know of any other municipal agency of its size or capability in Canada (others may have developed increased capability over the past few years, I've been out of the national loop for a while). For example, when I ran the equivalent organization in Edmonton, I had a staff of five. CEMA had over 30. Calgary also relocated housing that was located in the river valley flood plain. Again, I don't know of many Canadian jurisdictions that have the balls to take that kind of action. After I warned our City council in Edmonton about the flood threat in the river valley, they promptly increased development along the River. Of course, Edmonton also let people build their houses on bluffs overlooking the river. Shame about how the bluff gave way and oops there went the houses. I know you were being ironic, but I wouldn't put much faith in municipal preparedness.
 

foresterab

Member
Reaction score
13
Points
180
Calgary may not have a dedicated department, but they do have probably the best funded and organized municipal emergency management agency in Canada (Calgary Emergency Management Agency (CEMA)). This organization really got its start after the 2013 flood and has been well supported ever since. I don't know of any other municipal agency of its size or capability in Canada (others may have developed increased capability over the past few years, I've been out of the national loop for a while). For example, when I ran the equivalent organization in Edmonton, I had a staff of five. CEMA had over 30. Calgary also relocated housing that was located in the river valley flood plain. Again, I don't know of many Canadian jurisdictions that have the balls to take that kind of action. After I warned our City council in Edmonton about the flood threat in the river valley, they promptly increased development along the River. Of course, Edmonton also let people build their houses on bluffs overlooking the river. Shame about how the bluff gave way and oops there went the houses. I know you were being ironic, but I wouldn't put much faith in municipal preparedness.
It was the Calgary Fire Department that helped us get our Coast Guard dive team at the Hovercraft base up and running using the Water Rescue Equipment & Training | Swiftwater Equipment training program. They had 123 trained divers at the time and provided the instructors.
City of Calgary has an excellent emergency response set up based largely on the 2013 flood lessons and provides significant support to allow many of it's staff to support CAN-TF2 Alberta Disaster Response Team who are an excellent, trained, experienced and competent management team for multiple disasters. There are other differing degrees of capacity within Alberta based upon experience, manpower pool, and practice. Alberta Emergency Management Agency (AEMA) has been actively working with all the Alberta Municipalities to increase the amount of basic training and when appropriate, work on more advanced training within the ICS system....and it's getting used. These are lessons from the 2016 Fort Mac Murray Fire and were evident in 2019 wildfires that things were improving.

However there is also a higher level discussion going on at a provincial/federal level to better understand the different disaster scenario risks and priorities so that limited resources can be best applied. But this only works if all levels, local/municipal/provincial/federal/building codes/zoning/insurance and others are in alignment and no jurisdiction I think has this currently figured out. Australia is probably the lead country in the world right now based upon the 2009 Black Saturday Bushfires which lead to some wholescale changes to building codes, zoning, identification, and insurance changes but its' a major topic of discussion across the world (Forest Fires, floods, earthquakes etc.).

Top quality ICS management teams can handle incidents outside their individual area of expertise through providing the command and control structure to augment in the needed specialists/positions/manpower which is why some jurisdictions like New Zealand have orders to deploy to as many incidents as possible in order to remain current and experienced in case of future events like the 2011 Christchurch earthquake.
 
Top