Author Topic: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan  (Read 47263 times)

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Offline Slim

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2005, 07:59:55 »
That was one really excellent article!
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline bubba

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2005, 09:16:44 »
parrish is fried.i like hillier seems like he got a set, time will tell.
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline MCG

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2005, 11:42:57 »
I got an e-mail response:
"Canada's last fifty years have been devoted to peacemaking, not attacking
hundreds of thousands of unarmed civilians with bombs."

This just validates my perception of her ignorance on what the military does & how we operate.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2005, 15:59:07 »
parrish is fried.i like hillier seems like he got a set, time will tell.

Maybe I'm harping rather than discussing, but: while I'm certainly not Carolyn Parrish's defender â “ even if she wanted one, I'm not at all sure she is 'fried.'

Ms. Parrish's views re: US foreign policy, President Bush, General Hillier or the next Afghanistan mission may not sit well with many of us but they are not outside the Canadian mainstream.  She may be closer to the centre of Canadian socio-political thought or opinion than many, probably most of us here on army.ca.

Ms. Parrish, like all Canadians, is entitled to her views â “ surely, one of the things we* are defending is the right of Canadians to hold and voice whatever political opinions they choose.  Free speech is never more in need of defence than when it is unpopular.

Ms. Parrish put herself up for election; the voters of her riding selected her â “ out of a field of several candidates.  Some of those candidates would, almost certainly, find greater favour with me â “ maybe with you too â “ than Ms. Parrish, but most** of the people who came out to vote in Mississauga-Erindale in 2004 didn't see it that way; they chose her.  That gives her a special right, over and above that accorded to all other Canadians, like you and me, to propagate her views.  We don't have to like her views; we don't have to like or respect her, as a person; we should respect the fact that she has been chosen, by the people, to serve.

(I'm certain that a fair number of soldiers, NCOs and officers disliked me, personally â “ some probably fairly intensely; some did not hold me in high professional esteem; that did not prevent them from saluting smartly, saying 'Sir,' and getting on with the task of obeying my orders because they put aside their dislike and their considered views on my competence and respected the office to which I had been appointed.  I do the same with Ms. Parrish and every other elected person in Canada â “ even the ones I am pretty certain are crooks.  I recommend it as a general policy, it avoids all manner of heartburn.  I recall being proved very wrong about a senior officer I despised; one I admired turned out to have feet of clay and morals to match; live and learn.)

I believe Canadians can and should disagree strongly but civilly with many (most, in my case) of the views Ms. Parrish has expressed on foreign and defence policy related areas.  I believe soldiers should do that while affirming their responsibility to protect her rights to think and say what she does â “ muddled as her thoughts and words may be.

My guess is that Ms. Parrish is likely to be re-elected without difficulty in the next general election.  My guess is that the Liberals will run a rope-a-dope candidate against her in return for her continued loyalty in parliament.  The PM may even drop a few goodies in her riding if the NDP or Tories field a strong challenger.

So, I don't think being fried is anywhere on Ms. Parrish's horizon.  I will continue to criticize what she says and the way she says it because I disagree with both.  I will try to do so in a civil, even respectful manner.
 
----------
* Many of you, actually â “ I just cheer from the well shaded sidelines, comfortably settled on a soft, wide seat, pink gin in hand, etc.

** 28,000+ of the voters against 23,000+ for all the other candidates combined (see: http://www.elections.ca/scripts/OVR2004/default.html )
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline FormerHorseGuard

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2005, 03:17:22 »
After reading and listening to the CDS speak about the
Canadian Soldiers going overseas and the mission they
are undertaking, his words were strong and to the
point.
He is sending his troops on a  war like mission. I
think Canadian should take his speech to heart and
realize there well maybe wounded and dead soldiers
coming home. Canadian soldiers train well, do a great
job with the equipment, the rules they are given to
operate under.

Independent MP Carolyn Parrish her speech undermines
the training, shows a lack of faith and a lack of
respect for the Canadian Soldiers on this mission.
Maybe she needs to be put on point and made to walk
the talk. The CDS is a very frank, outspoken soldier
and the PMO knew that  before they hired him. He has
done the walk, and can do the talk. This MP wanting to
create headlines is just a want to be.
Good luck Troops, and good hunting

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2005, 03:28:17 »
FormerHordeGuard,

I agree 100% with your statement. My only question is, after all your other posts, is it yours, or someone else's?
Not that it matters much, it's true, succinct, and to the point. Just doesn't sound like you. If it's from someone else, I'd be glad to read more of their rhetoric.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Slim

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #81 on: August 05, 2005, 08:29:00 »
Quote
Ms. Parrish's views re: US foreign policy, President Bush, General Hillier or the next Afghanistan mission may not sit well with many of us but they are not outside the Canadian mainstream.  She may be closer to the centre of Canadian socio-political thought or opinion than many, probably most of us here on army.ca

Actually Ted I'm not so sure about that...I too thought the way you do until a recent visit to the CWM (you were there) changed my thinking on that somewhat. I agree that she was elected in her riding, which we all know is a very "immigrant heavy" area and whos sympathies probably do not lie with the U.S. on many issues. (Parrish may have somewhat inflamed their opinions about the war during her election campaign...We don't know)

What I do think is that that there is a very strong and silent majority who are more "like us" than we would have believed.

Of course I could be wrong...

Slim
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"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline bubba

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2005, 09:39:14 »
well ed i stand by my opinion.ijust read some her email replys to some of the people here.to me hillier is lettin canadians know the dangers and realities of what can happen in afghanistan.she doesn't have a clue imho what the risks are.i think she seen that cbc comercial about cypres and figures gate guard is all canadian soldiers can an should be aloud to do on the war on terrorism.i wonder if carolyn's opinion would change if toronto's s buses &subway were hit.imo she should be pushin the govt to increase the size of the army.when i went threw battle school the sign above door said CLOSE WITH AND DESTROY THE ENEMY.i guess in ottawa they don't have those signs over the doors in dnd buildings.me personly i hope it's an easy tour for the troops,only time will tell.and yes carolyn is intitled to her opinion just as much as you & i that is why its called a democracy.just because shes at the socio-political centre in missisauga she will probally get re-elected .she is speaking out against support for the us in a immigrant heavy area(as posted by slim)so my point is she's just tryin to get votes for the next election.typical politition,playin the angles imho....
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2005, 11:12:15 »
Not to be critical bubba but could you capitalize the begining of each sentence and leave a space or two between each sentence.  It makes for reading posts that much easier.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2005, 11:16:41 »
... so my point is she's just tryin to get votes for the next election.typical politition,playin the angles imho....

That's precisely what she is; that's all she claims to be, really.

They, professional politicians, are a fairly new phenomenon in Canada.  Before Joe Clark most (not all, not even then) politicians came to it as a 'calling' after having established themselves in some form of business, or the law, or the civil service.

She is a pro doing whatever it takes to earn and keep her job and pension.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2005, 11:18:50 »
Well Ed I stand by my opinion.   I just read some her email replys to some of the people here.   To me Hillier is letting Canadians know the dangers and realities of what can happen in Afghanistan.   She doesn't have a clue imho what the risks are.   I think she seen that CBC comercial about Cypres and figures gate guard is all canadian soldiers can and should be aloud to do on the war on terrorism.   I wonder if Carolyn's opinion would change if Toronto's s buses & subway were hit.   IMO she should be pushin the govt to increase the size of the army.   When I went threw battle school the sign above door said CLOSE WITH AND DESTROY THE ENEMY.   I guess in Ottawa they don't have those signs over the doors in dnd buildings.   Me personly I hope it's an easy tour for the troops, only time will tell.   Yes Carolyn is entitled to her opinion just as much as you & I, that is why its called a democracy.   Just because shes at the socio-political centre in Missisauga she will probally get re-elected.   She is speaking out against support for the us in a immigrant heavy area (as posted by slim) so my point is she's just tryin to get votes for the next election. Typical pplitician, playin the angles imho....
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline bubba

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2005, 12:27:32 »
hey CFL whats goin on,yep typin is not my thing but i'm tryin ;)by the way are you in EDMONTON.I'M headin out in sept,we should get together 4 a beer or 2 or 3.yours truely the ever humble bubba.hahaha
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline Slim

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2005, 12:32:01 »
hey CFL whats goin on,yep typin is not my thing but i'm tryin ;)by the way are you in EDMONTON.I'M headin out in sept,we should get together 4 a beer or 2 or 3.yours truely the ever humble bubba.hahaha

 ???
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2005, 13:04:02 »
sorry,
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 20:15:22 by Quagmire »
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline bubba

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2005, 14:08:05 »
hey slim why the sad face.you can come over for a beer if ya want.i thought you were in missasauga or i would of ask you to......btw i spent jan,feb& march there workin.i drank at THE FIRKIN.
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline FormerHorseGuard

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2005, 14:29:08 »
it is my  post, my  words, i wrote it to the ottawa sun and they  never printed in letters to the editor.
sometimes I can make more sense.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2005, 15:18:05 »
it is my   post, my   words, i wrote it to the ottawa sun and they  never printed in letters to the editor.
sometimes I can make more sense.

What did you expect? It makes to much sense.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Slim

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2005, 15:32:26 »
hey slim why the sad face.you can come over for a beer if ya want.i thought you were in missasauga or i would of ask you to......btw i spent jan,feb& march there workin.i drank at THE FIRKIN.

Its not sad...Just confused. Perhaps the little face couldn't understand your post?!
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

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Offline jmacleod

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2005, 12:34:55 »
Edward Campbell is right MP Parrish will get relected. She knows how to play the media well,
and comes across as the high school teacher, somewhat frustrated, who was a nag. I think she
expected a Cabinet post in the Martin government, and was passed over, but she knows how
to play the game in a Minority situation - at the moment her vote is important. She would also
be aware that General Hillier's important and accurate comments about going into harm's way
in Afghanistan, along with the new NATO committment of 17,600 troops (see Military.com) means
that the CDS has the tacit approval of the PMO (MND) - although it is anticipated that Minister
Graham will be moving out of the MND office soon. Every time Ms Parrish blows her cool, the media
drop their focus on the many and more pressing issues facing the Canadian military, and give her the
full spin treatment, especially the Toronto media. MacLeod

Offline MCG

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2005, 12:53:55 »
Has anyone seen an official DND reply that has corrected her on her factual errors?  I'm not looking for an official counter opinion (these should & have come from elected officials).  However, the ADM responsible for public affairs should have a duty to correct every error presented as fact in the mainstream media (even starting with the fact that Winnipeg television could never seem to get the name of the PPCLI correct even when there was a bn in the city).

She is entitles to her opinion, but silence suggests that her facts were correct.

Offline GDawg

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2005, 13:12:15 »
Edward Campbell is right MP Parrish will get relected. She knows how to play the media well,
and comes across as the high school teacher, somewhat frustrated, who was a nag. I think she
expected a Cabinet post in the Martin government, and was passed over, but she knows how
to play the game in a Minority situation - at the moment her vote is important. She would also
be aware that General Hillier's important and accurate comments about going into harm's way
in Afghanistan, along with the new NATO committment of 17,600 troops (see Military.com) means
that the CDS has the tacit approval of the PMO (MND) - although it is anticipated that Minister
Graham will be moving out of the MND office soon. Every time Ms Parrish blows her cool, the media
drop their focus on the many and more pressing issues facing the Canadian military, and give her the
full spin treatment, especially the Toronto media. MacLeod

Boy, wouldn't that be a treat if she was let back into the Liberals and became MND...
The SAT ranges would be converted to karaoke facilities to teach us how to play the accoustic guitar and sing about hand holding and flowers.

Offline GDawg

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2005, 13:15:54 »
Has anyone seen an official DND reply that has corrected her on her factual errors?  I'm not looking for an official counter opinion (these should & have come from elected officials).  However, the ADM responsible for public affairs should have a duty to correct every error presented as fact in the mainstream media (even starting with the fact that Winnipeg television could never seem to get the name of the PPCLI correct even when there was a bn in the city).

She is entitles to her opinion, but silence suggests that her facts were correct.

Thats an excellent point. ADM(PA) should have a reality enforcement cell that seeks to correct some of the laughably inaccurate things that get printed or said about the CF.

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2005, 15:04:45 »
Thats an excellent point. ADM(PA) should have a reality enforcement cell that seeks to correct some of the laughably inaccurate things that get printed or said about the CF.

OUTSTANDING idea!!

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Offline wongskc

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Re: Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2005, 17:20:17 »
Thats an excellent point. ADM(PA) should have a reality enforcement cell that seeks to correct some of the laughably inaccurate things that get printed or said about the CF.

That's a brainstorm worth its gold right there!
We have such a hard time trying to answer the question: What is a Canadian? The Dutch have no such trouble. To them, a Canadian is someone from a far-off land who risked everything to liberate them from one of the worst kinds of oppression the world has ever seen.

Offline bossi

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Re: Editorial: Carolyn Parrish on Afghanistan
« Reply #99 on: August 06, 2005, 22:22:57 »
Here is the "Letter Of The Day", and editor's reply, from today's Toronto Sun:

Quote
Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have ever made a difference in the world. Others find out, when they least expect it. The other day, the clerk in a convenience store noticed some Arabic script on my t-shirt and said "ISAF -- where is he from?" referring to the International Security Assistance Force.

When I explained I had been in Kabul with the Canadian Army, he leaned over the counter and gave me the warmest hug -- the type that comes from the heart, and speaks volumes. Suddenly I was transported back to Afghanistan and all my memories of sitting down to tea with teachers and village elders while wearing body armour and carrying a loaded weapon, never knowing if a bomb, bullet or landmine was waiting for me.

I'm only guessing, but I don't think this gentleman regarded me as the "beast" that Carolyn Parrish so ignorantly suggested. Until Parrish has "been there, done that, got the t-shirt," I suggest she stop yapping like a mutt.

Mark Bossi
Scarborough

(Wonderful story! Are you listening, Carolyn?)

P.S. (I called her a female mutt, but they edited that out ...)
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