Author Topic: Killing Canadians 'best way': student  (Read 71987 times)

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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #200 on: July 08, 2010, 21:39:32 »
"What happened to the expression, "The buck stops here"


That saying went out of style in the late 60's, early 70's.

We taught an entire generation that they have rights, but we forgot to tell them they have responsibilties and will be held accountable for their actions.
When I say we, I mean my generation. Some of these ones we forgot to tell have figured it out for themselves.

Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum that aren't responsible for anything and refuse to be held accountable for their actions.
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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #201 on: July 08, 2010, 21:47:21 »
What happened to the expression, "The buck stops here"

Here it is, Chevy!
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Offline bdave

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #202 on: July 13, 2010, 03:01:57 »
That saying went out of style in the late 60's, early 70's.

We taught an entire generation that they have rights, but we forgot to tell them they have responsibilties and will be held accountable for their actions.
When I say we, I mean my generation. Some of these ones we forgot to tell have figured it out for themselves.

Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum that aren't responsible for anything and refuse to be held accountable for their actions.

I disagree. I'm sure these people know very well that they are responsible for their actions. They are simply taking advantage of the system and it seems that so far they are succeeding.
News release (highlights mine):Can't wait to see the defence's arguments.
I don't know much about law, but here goes:
Mr. Hossain has been charged with inciting hateful remarks towards the Canadian Forces. Specifically soldiers who are, or are destined to, deploy overseas in Afghanistan.
The problem here is that the charges of "Wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group" and " Advocate or promote genocide against an identifiable group" is that identifiable group relates to "any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation"[1]. Hence, since the remarks are directed towards a non-public body, i.e. the government, it can be argued that the charges are false.

Also,

(a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true;
(b) if, in good faith, he expressed or attempted to establish by argument an opinion on a religious subject;
(c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or
(d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada.

The statements are relevant to a subject of public interest, since it concerns Canada's role in Afghanistan. He is deluded enough to believe them whole heartedly. So, in that case, he'd also be in the clear, so to speak.
Regardless, if he was charged, he'd only get 2 years [2].
 
I say deport him.

Source: [1]http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.318.html
            [2]http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.319.html
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 03:06:42 by bdave »

Offline HavokFour

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #203 on: July 13, 2010, 04:47:59 »
I couldn't even read the whole thing, I only made it about half way. I'm seeing red and it honestly makes me want to punt a newborn down a steep hill.   >:(

Glad the coward fled the country though.
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Offline SocialyDistorted

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #204 on: July 13, 2010, 12:17:29 »
I'm glad his site is based in the U.S.

Hopefully means that there won't be any "oh, we cant find the data" crap if/when he turns back up in Canada
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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #205 on: July 13, 2010, 13:13:40 »
.... I don't know much about law, but here goes:
Mr. Hossain has been charged with inciting hateful remarks towards the Canadian Forces. Specifically soldiers who are, or are destined to, deploy overseas in Afghanistan.
The problem here is that the charges of "Wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group" and " Advocate or promote genocide against an identifiable group" is that identifiable group relates to "any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation"[1]. Hence, since the remarks are directed towards a non-public body, i.e. the government, it can be argued that the charges are false ....
I read it differently - according to the news release:
Quote
.... A five-month investigation revealed that a website and blog operated by Mr. HOSSAIN contained information that, among other things, wilfully promoted hatred and advocated genocide of the Jewish community ....
he's being charged with statements against a "section of the public distinguished by .... religion", not for statements against the CF/members thereof.
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Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #206 on: July 13, 2010, 14:46:30 »
Anyway, according to his charges noted earlier:
Mr. HOSSAIN is charged with:

    -   Wilfully promote hatred against an identifiable group,
        Section 319.2 - three (3) counts
    -   Advocate or promote genocide against an identifiable group,
        Section 318.1 - two (2) counts
______________________________________________________
 So then Mr. Hossain should be entitled to at least 16 years in the pen.
 that is 2X5yrs for Section 318, and 3X2yrs for Section 319.
 Maybe more.......

Online GK .Dundas

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #207 on: July 13, 2010, 18:08:53 »
I couldn't even read the whole thing, I only made it about half way. I'm seeing red and it honestly makes me want to punt a newborn down a steep hill.   >:(

Glad the coward fled the country though.
"FLED"????????????? More crawled ,sauntered  slowly rode off into the sunset  then fled the country.
 I have to ask is dithering a requirement prior to joining the OPP or do they have a course on it? 
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Offline bdave

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #208 on: July 14, 2010, 00:47:27 »
I read it differently - according to the news release:he's being charged with statements against a "section of the public distinguished by .... religion", not for statements against the CF/members thereof.
Argh, my bad. Haven't been keeping up with this at all.
Got my wish though. He's out of Canada.  [mountie]

Offline Larry Strong

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #209 on: July 14, 2010, 09:41:33 »
Argh, my bad. Haven't been keeping up with this at all.
Got my wish though. He's out of Canada.  [mountie]

Personally I would rather he had been given his due process. As much as I have very little faith in today's judges there are way too many people in this country that figure you can say and do whatever your heart desires and that there should be no consequences for said actions.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #210 on: November 09, 2010, 14:02:33 »
An interesting development:


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act


Interpol issues warrant for Ont. man
08/11/2010 6:51:46 PM
CBC News


LINK

Interpol has issued a warrant at the OPP's request for an Ontario man wanted on charges of advocating or promoting genocide.

Salman An-noor Hossain, a former student at the University of Toronto in Mississauga, was charged July 8 with two counts of advocating genocide and three counts of promoting hatred.

Police allege that Hossain, 25, who escaped and is now overseas, ran a website that called for the mass execution of Canadian Jews. The site accused Israel's intelligence agency, the Mossad, of creating terrorist groups, such as the Toronto 18, in order to discredit Muslims.

Hossain is also alleged to have blogged that "he would cheer the death of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan."

It was lobby groups such as Bernie Farber's Canadian Jewish Congress that first alerted police to Hossain's activities.

"This is a guy that is very committed to what he wants to do. Very committed to his hatred of Jews," Farber said.

According to Farber, Hossain escaped police by jumping out a side window of his residence as officers were knocking on his door. But Farber is convinced the Interpol warrant issued Monday will result in an arrest.

"When Interpol sends out a warrant like this it means it's of interest to every police force in the world. So he is a marked man."

Police believe Hossain is hiding in Uganda or his native Bangladesh.

Canada doesn't have an extradition treaty with either country, but a spokesman for the OPP said if Hossain is caught the federal government can use other diplomatic avenues to have him returned.

With files from CBC's Bill Gillespie
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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #211 on: November 09, 2010, 14:56:51 »
Here is a perfect candidate for getting stripped of his status in Canada.  Either citizenship or resident status.  Let Bangladesh have him.

Offline krustyrl

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #212 on: November 09, 2010, 15:19:13 »
That would be a perfect case of  "ANOTHER' perfect candidate...

Offline old medic

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #213 on: November 10, 2010, 17:35:33 »
Here is a perfect candidate for getting stripped of his status in Canada.  Either citizenship or resident status.  Let Bangladesh have him.

They didn't strip it from the Chinese guy who cut off someone's head on a bus,  I doubt they'll do it for this.

 
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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #214 on: November 10, 2010, 18:14:07 »
Quote
They didn't strip it from the Chinese guy who cut off someone's head on a bus,  I doubt they'll do it for this.

Yes, well he is mentally ill.  And that is a pass in and of itself. 

Whereas this a$$hole playing where in the world is Carmen Sandiego is not batshit crazy.  He is just a hate monger and P.O.S of the Khadr class.  England recently lost an attempt to rid themselves of this P.O.S   (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326906/Hate-preacher-Abu-Hamza-wins-human-rights-bid-UK-passport.html) when Egypt beat them to the punch of stripping status.  I do not see any reason why we could not successfully do the same, and we should.

Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #215 on: November 10, 2010, 22:20:39 »
I imagine they won't be just tapping on his door the next time around.
I stand by all that I said on the thread regarding this  :evil:  lowlife.


 :clubinhand:

« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 22:28:01 by 57Chevy »

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He's baaaaaaaaaaack.....
« Reply #216 on: December 22, 2010, 22:18:40 »
....according to this from Postmedia News:
Quote
The resurrection of a website advocating the genocide of Jews and Canadians, founded by a Toronto extremist who is wanted by police, highlights the difficulties of policing the Internet, where public postings can be generated and disseminated from almost anywhere.

The website was founded by Salman Hossain, 25, a Canadian extremist who fled Canada earlier this year during a police investigation into use of the Internet to promote terrorist violence in Canada.

Police subsequently charged him with five hate crimes — two counts of advocating genocide and three counts of promoting hatred — but so far, have been unable to locate him.

The site was shut down after the charges were laid.

The National Post reported last month that the site had re-emerged on a U.S. free-speech server but was again shut down. This month, it found a new home, through Internet servers based in Switzerland ....

Here's info on who's hosting the site these days (via GoDaddy.com):
Quote
.... Last Updated On:21-Dec-2010 00:25:21 UTC
Expiration Date:25-Sep-2015 00:19:07 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:de6731e932df0c9f
Registrant Name:Albisser Paul
Registrant Organization:Albisser Paul
Registrant Street1:Tribschenstrasse 48
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Luzern
Registrant State/Province:Luzern
Registrant Postal Code:6005
Registrant Country:CH
Registrant Phone:+41.41413601540
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:+41.41413601540
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:contact@anonymousspeech.com ...
and here's the site apparently run by the same concern, offering anonymous domain registration and hosting:
http://www.anonymousspeech.com
1

Here's some details on who's hanging onto the .com and .net versions of the same domain.

Latest Interpol posting for subject POS attached.

1 - More digging shows it may not be the same folks.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 22:30:00 by milnews.ca »
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Offline EMEGUY421

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #217 on: December 23, 2010, 13:29:36 »


  Greetings all,

  I didn't read the whole thread, 9 pages of rants and rage would sour my day.  The whole thing smacks of a child who is trying to be bigger than he seems, and is apparently ( to me) a cry to the public for his 15 minutes.  I say let him rave, words are harmless until acted upon.  I am a standing member in the CF who has been in the sandbox.  If this person were to attempt an attack on CF personnel who are training to deploy,  he would not be successful. 

  I am not advocating that he is right, or that people who oppose him are right, but the laws state that every person be afforded freedom of speech, and if the words are illegal then the person is subject to the penalty of law.  He was investigated and no laws were broken, or he would have been detained form the beginning.

  Are we as levelheaded Canadian society so enraged by one persons words, that we would make the same mistake as he and utter words of our own?  Come to your senses and realize that this person is expressing thoughts, and leave it at that. 

  You legitimize his actions by reacting.

 My 2 cents.

   
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #218 on: December 23, 2010, 13:54:42 »
I didn't read the whole thread....
Ah, I envy those whose opinions are so sacrosanct that they can wade into a discussion without bothering to further inform those opinions.

Quote
If this person were to attempt an attack on CF personnel who are training to deploy,  he would not be successful.
If this person's blog incites attacks upon CF personnel, or a less-secure target such as their families, can you really guarantee the attack's failure? Inciting hatred and violent action is NOT considered freedom of speech.

Quote
You legitimize his actions by reacting.
Whereas by doing nothing, you are both condoning his actions and perhaps emboldening others to take it further.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #219 on: December 23, 2010, 13:58:05 »

  Greetings all,

  I didn't read the whole thread, 9 pages of rants and rage would sour my day.  The whole thing smacks of a child who is trying to be bigger than he seems, and is apparently ( to me) a cry to the public for his 15 minutes.  I say let him rave, words are harmless until acted upon.  I am a standing member in the CF who has been in the sandbox.  If this person were to attempt an attack on CF personnel who are training to deploy,  he would not be successful. 

  I am not advocating that he is right, or that people who oppose him are right, but the laws state that every person be afforded freedom of speech, and if the words are illegal then the person is subject to the penalty of law.  He was investigated and no laws were broken, or he would have been detained form the beginning.

  Are we as levelheaded Canadian society so enraged by one persons words, that we would make the same mistake as he and utter words of our own?  Come to your senses and realize that this person is expressing thoughts, and leave it at that. 

  You legitimize his actions by reacting.

 My 2 cents.

 

I have a name for you. This person ranted and raved and was dismissed as a peasant etc.

Hitler.
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Offline EMEGUY421

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #220 on: December 23, 2010, 14:12:40 »
Jim,

  I worked with your son while at 2PPCLI.

  I respect your words. I do not think that we should play into this persons ideas because it empowers his thoughts.  I do not agree with his words, but I cannot disrespect his rights to speak them.

 
Better to be tried by twelve, than carried by six..

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #221 on: December 23, 2010, 14:16:41 »
Jim,

  I worked with your son while at 2PPCLI.

  I respect your words. I do not think that we should play into this persons ideas because it empowers his thoughts.  I do not agree with his words, but I cannot disrespect his rights to speak them.

Thank you for your kind words. I must disagree. This is not free speech, this is hate speech, pure and simple. Advocating the genocide of a race is not, IMO, free speech.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #222 on: December 23, 2010, 14:19:45 »
 ;D
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 14:50:24 by Grimaldus »
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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #223 on: December 23, 2010, 14:25:06 »
I am not advocating that he is right, or that people who oppose him are right, but the laws state that every person be afforded freedom of speech, and if the words are illegal then the person is subject to the penalty of law.  He was investigated and no laws were broken, or he would have been detained form the beginning.
Re:  the bit in yellow, if you'd read Interpol's "Wanted" poster, it says this:  "Categories of Offences: CRIMES AGAINST LIFE AND HEALTH, ORGANIZED CRIME /TRANSNATIONAL CRIME Arrest Warrant Issued by: CITY OF MISSISSAUGA, SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE, CENTRAL WEST REGION OF THE PROVI / Canada".  And I guess you missed this bit too in the latest media report:  "The resurrection of a website advocating the genocide of Jews and Canadians, founded by a Toronto extremist who is wanted by police, highlights the difficulties of policing the Internet, where public postings can be generated and disseminated from almost anywhere."  He may have been cleared before, but if that's the case, he should have nothing to worry about speaking to police now since they appear to have more questions, right?

I didn't read the whole thread, 9 pages of rants and rage would sour my day. 
I guess you missed a bit of INFORMATION in not reading at least the last half-dozen posts, eh?

Also, I guess that if this chap and his web page/forum posts were to incite/condone/encourage doing harm to, say, "Land based weapons doctors", or their families, you'd still be comfortable with his "freedom of speech"?   If you are, you're a bigger man than I am.

I hear what you say about keeping criticism in perspective, but this goes beyond criticizing the status quo - headlines like "Learning How To Identify Jews During Roundup Time!" or "The Destruction of the West is the Only Way to Exterminate the Jews!" strike me as WAY over the "civilized and reasonable debate and dissent" line.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 14:28:36 by milnews.ca »
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Offline EMEGUY421

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Re: Killing Canadians 'best way': student
« Reply #224 on: December 23, 2010, 14:42:27 »
Re:  the bit in yellow, if you'd read Interpol's "Wanted" poster, it says this:  "Categories of Offences: CRIMES AGAINST LIFE AND HEALTH, ORGANIZED CRIME /TRANSNATIONAL CRIME Arrest Warrant Issued by: CITY OF MISSISSAUGA, SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE, CENTRAL WEST REGION OF THE PROVI / Canada".  And I guess you missed this bit too in the latest media report:  "The resurrection of a website advocating the genocide of Jews and Canadians, founded by a Toronto extremist who is wanted by police, highlights the difficulties of policing the Internet, where public postings can be generated and disseminated from almost anywhere."  He may have been cleared before, but if that's the case, he should have nothing to worry about speaking to police now since they appear to have more questions, right?
I guess you missed a bit of INFORMATION in not reading at least the last half-dozen posts, eh?

Also, I guess that if this chap and his web page/forum posts were to incite/condone/encourage doing harm to, say, "Land based weapons doctors", or their families, you'd still be comfortable with his "freedom of speech"?   If you are, you're a bigger man than I am.

I hear what you say about keeping criticism in perspective, but this goes beyond criticizing the status quo - headlines like "Learning How To Identify Jews During Roundup Time!" or "The Destruction of the West is the Only Way to Exterminate the Jews!" strike me as WAY over the "civilized and reasonable debate and dissent" line.


 Has he actually hurt anyone? Has he been arrested?   I am not a coward, and will do what is neccessary to defend my family and myself, but I am also trained in Rules of Engagement.  You cannot go ballistic on the belief of terrorism, you have to have PROOF.

 He is an airbag that is desperately in need of a pin.
Better to be tried by twelve, than carried by six..