Author Topic: "French Affairs" Take On The Terrorist Known As Israel- Split from something  (Read 9759 times)

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Offline FrenchAffair

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I was referring to the recent report that the National Union of Journalists voted to boycot Israel and all Israeli products, etc.

How in hell can a 'journalist' claim to be unbiased while his trade union decides to boycott a newsworthy country.  Only a tiny handful of members decided to resign from the NUJ.  What a bunch of liars and losers!

 That is just being a moral human. We should do everything we can on all levels of our lives to ensure that we do not support terrorists. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 17:25:55 by Bruce Monkhouse »

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2007, 01:44:20 »
That is just being a moral human. We should do everything we can on all levels of our lives to ensure that we do not support terrorists. 


Just to be clear FrenchAffair:  You ARE suggesting that the Israelis are terrorists?  Is that correct?
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Offline FrenchAffair

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2007, 02:21:10 »
Just to be clear FrenchAffair:  You ARE suggesting that the Israelis are terrorists?  Is that correct?

Are you suggesting that they are not? They are a nation that was born out of terrorism and a nation that continues to this date though terrorism.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2007, 10:55:10 »
Are you suggesting that they are not? They are a nation that was born out of terrorism and a nation that continues to this date though terrorism.

Thank you for the clarification.  I happen to disagree vehemently with your position and I doubt you will find much support for it on this site.  Given that it has been my experience that there is little likelihood of a meeting of minds on this issue I don't believe it warrants any further discussion between us, particularly on a thread discussing Greenhouse Gases.

Based on the tenor of your posts to this point on a variety of subjects perhaps I could recommend you to rabble.ca.  You might be more comfortable over there.

A Dieu, Monsieur.
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Offline Flip

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2007, 11:06:27 »
Are you suggesting that they are not? They are a nation that was born out of terrorism and a nation that continues to this date though terrorism.

Yea, as the victims!

A pluralistic liberal democracy in the middle east with about 25% of it's citizens
coming from Arab descent and rest from all over the globe living in the ISRAELLI ancestral
homeland - Yea - a terrible thing indeed!

Sorry - I had to....

Kirkhill - you're right - not on this thread

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Offline FrenchAffair

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2007, 13:47:31 »
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Yea, as the victims!


As the victims? The Zionists invented international terrorism.

 Back in the 20’s when the British put a halt on Jewish immigration into Palestine the Zionists decided to fight for their independence, though terrorism. Zionist groups attacked Arab villages to ethnically cleanse them to make room for Jewish settlers, they threw grenades into cafes with British solider, they kidnapped and executed British officers and they set bombs of in cities, towns.

 This all culminated in the bombing of the King David Hotel, in which Israeli terrorists blew up the hotel (one of the terrorists later became the Israeli Prime Minister) killing almost 98 people.

This caused the British to withdraw their troops in Palestine, give control over to the UN which then unsuccessfully tried to divided the land. This gave way for the Zionists to grab more land, forcing almost 4 million Palestinians off their land (to this date Israel refuses to give them a right to return).

The Zionists started the wave of terrorism in the region, and is it any surprise the Palestinians are using the tactics they are today? They look back at history and see that 70 years ago when the Jews were occupied by a foreign nation that denied them their rights they resorted to terrorism, and it won the Jews Israel. So how can the Israelis blame the Palestians, brutally occupied by a foreign nation, for resorting to the same tactics that the Jews used themselves to win their independence?

Quote
A pluralistic liberal democracy in the middle east with about 25% of it's citizens
coming from Arab descent and rest from all over the globe living in the ISRAELLI ancestral
homeland

 I think the 6,000,000 Palestinians living under Israeli rule that have no political, civil or human rights would disagree with your assertion of democracy.

 And what does ancestral homeland have to do with this issue?

Offline Dare

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2007, 14:03:28 »
As the victims? The Zionists invented international terrorism.

 Back in the 20’s when the British put a halt on Jewish immigration into Palestine the Zionists decided to fight for their independence, though terrorism. Zionist groups attacked Arab villages to ethnically cleanse them to make room for Jewish settlers, they threw grenades into cafes with British solider, they kidnapped and executed British officers and they set bombs of in cities, towns.

 This all culminated in the bombing of the King David Hotel, in which Israeli terrorists blew up the hotel (one of the terrorists later became the Israeli Prime Minister) killing almost 98 people.

This caused the British to withdraw their troops in Palestine, give control over to the UN which then unsuccessfully tried to divided the land. This gave way for the Zionists to grab more land, forcing almost 4 million Palestinians off their land (to this date Israel refuses to give them a right to return).

The Zionists started the wave of terrorism in the region, and is it any surprise the Palestinians are using the tactics they are today? They look back at history and see that 70 years ago when the Jews were occupied by a foreign nation that denied them their rights they resorted to terrorism, and it won the Jews Israel. So how can the Israelis blame the Palestians, brutally occupied by a foreign nation, for resorting to the same tactics that the Jews used themselves to win their independence?

 I think the 6,000,000 Palestinians living under Israeli rule that have no political, civil or human rights would disagree with your assertion of democracy.

 And what does ancestral homeland have to do with this issue?

What do you think about the 1 million arabs in Israel (including many former Egyptian/Jordanians (Palestinians)) of whom count themselves as democratically represented Israeli citizens? Who represents the Jews in every other Arab country where Jews live in? Or Christians? Or Zoroastrians? Or Athiests? You think that the VERY first recorded moment of international terrorism is conducted by Israel? In ALL human history? Maybe that is the only history you know, and you should go back to school (my guess would be that you are still in school, but that's just another broad brush generalization that I am oft accused of making.) Perhaps, it might be a better idea just to go to a library nowadays rather than get your learnins from the edumacation centers.

Btw, There are dozens of other Israel vs Palestine threads. Go hijack them.

P.S. Thank God for RSS. For without it, I'd have missed this.

Offline FrenchAffair

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2007, 14:24:01 »
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What do you think about the 1 million arabs in Israel (including many former Egyptian/Jordanians (Palestinians)) of whom count themselves as democratically represented Israeli citizens?

They are among the lucky few of the Arab minority that suffer political discrimination based on decades of social exclusion. They are Muslims and Christians in a state the describes itself as a “Jewish State”, founded on the principles of Zionism, one of which is the “transfer” (ethnic cleansing) of all non-Jews from the Jewish state.

and for your information, Non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have the same rights as Jewish citizens.

Quote
Who represents the Jews in every other Arab country where Jews live in? Or Christians? Or Zoroastrians? Or Athiests?

 In the ones that are democratic, it would be who ever they elect. But why does that matter? Are you suggesting because there is a lack of democracy in the region around Israel we should excuse their abuses of human rights and lack of democracy?

Quote
You think that the VERY first recorded moment of international terrorism is conducted by Israel?

 The bombing of the King David Hotel was the first acts of terrorism that was front page news around the world, it was the first act of terrorism that resulted in signicifent political change and really it was the culmination of a public terrorist campaign that succeeded in it’s stated goals. The independence of Israel.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Split this off from another stupid bunfight on Kyoto..............carry on with your new stupid bunfight.
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Offline Target Up

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2007, 17:53:10 »
They are among the lucky few of the Arab minority that suffer political discrimination based on decades of social exclusion. They are Muslims and Christians in a state the describes itself as a “Jewish State”, founded on the principles of Zionism, one of which is the “transfer” (ethnic cleansing) of all non-Jews from the Jewish state.

and for your information, Non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have the same rights as Jewish citizens.

 In the ones that are democratic, it would be who ever they elect. But why does that matter? Are you suggesting because there is a lack of democracy in the region around Israel we should excuse their abuses of human rights and lack of democracy?

 The bombing of the King David Hotel was the first acts of terrorism that was front page news around the world, it was the first act of terrorism that resulted in signicifent political change and really it was the culmination of a public terrorist campaign that succeeded in it’s stated goals. The independence of Israel.


I would argue that the assassination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria by Gavrilo Princip of the Black Hand on June 28, 1914 was the first globally newsworthy act of terrorism, but that's just me..... Carry on chatting amongst yourselves.
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Offline Larry Strong

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Re: Tories plan to stabilize emissions by 2012
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2007, 17:55:32 »
and for your information, Non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have the same rights as Jewish citizens.

 

Would you care to source that little tid-bit of information?
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Offline stealthylizard

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There is a big difference between Zionists, Jews, and Israelites.  Could you please refer to one of the aforementioned groups in your idealogy, and not class them all together.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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However, some would say ' the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Somewhat simplistic, but it makes the point. Of course it only holds true while the goals of both are common.
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Offline FrenchAffair

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Would you care to source that little tid-bit of information?

 Well for one if a Jewish-Israeli marries a non-Israeli, that non-Israeli is automatically granted the right to citizenship. How ever if a non-Jewish Israeli marries a non-Israeli no such right is granted. Non-Jewish Israelis can not apply or serve in many capacities in the military, they suffer daily discrimination well the authorities turn a blind eye.

 It was not long ago that Israelis denied a group of Christian Israelis access to Bethlehem for a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Jesus, how ever a group of Jewish settlers were given a police escort along the same day into the same area.

Offline Larry Strong

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Nearly every country in the world boasts one majority community, and nearly all reflect the cultural identity of that community in one way or another. The United States officially celebrates only Christian holidays; many European countries openly identify as either Catholic or Protestant; and many Muslim countries uncontroversially refer to themselves as an "Islamic Republic," whether they are democratic or not. For some, such identification is simply a sign of the spiritual persuasion of the majority; for others, it is homage to the story of the country's founding.  Arab-Isreali's are not allowed to join the Army?


Oh and by the way, when asked to "source" something that means "prove it" not "give more unsubstantiated tales".
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 08:31:25 by Larry Strong »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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So what side was H-vK on, then?  Was he an enemy or friend?

Not quite as simplistic as you would have people believe and I'm not sure what "point" your post makes.

The means, employed indiscriminately, don't always justify the ends.

Simply, it meant, that like many others, I will side with Israel. As long as they are fighting Islamic terrorists, we have a common goal. This aspect is the most important facet of them, to me, at this time. Their human rights record, how they treat immigrant settlers, etc takes a big back seat to taking out our common enemy.
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Offline FrenchAffair

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Simply, it meant, that like many others, I will side with Israel. As long as they are fighting Islamic terrorists, we have a common goal.

 Israel is one of the core reasons there are so many “Islamic” terrorists to fight. They never burn an American flag with out an Israeli one right next to it. Israel is seen as the wests proxy in the middle east, the millions of Palestinians they oppress, the tens of thousands of atrocities they have committed, the ethnic cleansing, the indiscriminate bombing, the occupation…. All these are perceived to be acts of the west though Israel. Before the invasion of Iraq Israel was the main source of anti-western sentiment in the middle east.

 Drop our support for Israel and half these “Islamic” terrorists would no longer have a fight with the west.

Quote
Their human rights record, how they treat immigrant settlers, etc takes a big back seat to taking out our common enemy.

 So you are a staunch supporter of the Communist China government then I take it?

Offline scoutfinch

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****Ludicrous straw man alert****Ludicrous straw man alert***** Ludicrous straw man alert*****
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke

Offline FrenchAffair

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Like what?  I have encountered IDF officers (not just conscripts) who were Druze and got to know them pretty well.  Not sure what "other capacities" you feel would be religiously biased or what your source is as the IDF tends to choose its officers and screen them quite carefully.

 Non-Jews can not be pilots, work in sensitive aspects of the military, achieve rank above certain thresholds…. It is not so much the specific act of denying them it, it is the mentality behind it which translates to every aspect of Israeli life. Israelis to not trust non-jews and actively and openly discriminate against them.

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Examples?  Without bringing up those suspected of being terrorists or those searched at checkpoints, because guess what - EVERYONE gets searched at checkpoints.

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0198/9801088.html

http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/pubs/20001222ib.html

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/

 If you are interested you should also read about the plight of Ethiopian Jews, they are treated almost as badly as the Arabs are.

Quote
Bethlehem is in a contested area outside Jerusalem and falls under the Palestinian Authority

 Israel takes an active role in all the occupied territory. The “Palestinian Authority” is nothing more than a concession Israel made to appear positive in the world of international affairs. They hold little power, Israeli tanks still roll though every Palestinian neighborhood, Israeli bombs still fall on every Palestinian city and Israeli soldiers still shoot unarmed civilians where ever and when ever they want. 

Quote
If an operation is going on, their SOP is to restrict any and all access to the area, both to keep their own troops safe and avoid unnecessary civilian casualties.

 You mean “white casualties”. Israel couldn’t care less about Palestinian civilians.

Offline SeaKingTacco

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So you are a staunch supporter of the Communist China government then I take it?

Unlike you, I have actually been to China.  They are neither our friend, nor or enemy.  They are rather self-interested.

Besides, what Olga said.

Offline FrenchAffair

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Unlike you, I have actually been to China.  They are neither our friend, nor or enemy.  They are rather self-interested.

Besides, what Olga said.

They are fighting “Islamic” terrorism, according to him that is all that should matter when decided if or if not to support a government.


And how would you know if or if not I have been to China?

Offline SeaKingTacco

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And how would you know if or if not I have been to China?

Lucky guess...

 :)

Offline scoutfinch

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****Ludicrous straw man alert****Ludicrous straw man alert***** Ludicrous straw man alert*****

The presence of a ludicrous strawman fallacy has been confirmed.  FrenchAffair -- step away from the keyboard and put your hands in the air.

The Ludicrous strawman fallacy will apparently continue as FrenchAffair is immune to facts and simply loves to see build fallacious arguments fo r others to swat down.

****Ludicrous straw man alert****Ludicrous straw man alert***** Ludicrous straw man alert*****
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke

Offline scoutfinch

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FrenchAffair:

Have you ever studied Realism a'la Morgenthau?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke

Offline FrenchAffair

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Lucky guess...

 :)

I’ve been to China three times in my life. But what does visiting China have to do with this conversation at all? I never visited their concentration camps, I never took a tour though their prisoners, or witnessed any of the massive human rights abuses accost their country. I seriously doubt you did either, all our trips to China did was give us the opportunity to see a few nice citys, some beautiful countryside and some old artifacts. Being to a country doesn’t give you any better understanding of the nation wide and systematic abuses by this repressive government that are well known.

Please, keep on the topic of this thread, don’t use it to boast about your exploits abroad. It is irrelevant.