Author Topic: Troops' Internet postings pose security risk, warns military official  (Read 23625 times)

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Offline Booked_Spice

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I am conflicted with this article. I love seeing our Forces in Action however I don't want my ability to see these videos endangering our Troops overseas. I am very interested in seeing other peoples views on this article.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/World/2006/08/09/1725827-sun.html
I am really trying to see things from your point of view. But I find it really hard to stick my head that far up my butt.

Offline career_radio-checker

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I don't know why officials are concerned with the tidbits of private footage on YouTube while you can find a picture perfect overhead map of any base using Google earth, and stats about our equipment on the internet. Heck, if you were to take their word seriously you could kiss the 'equipment' section of this forum good by. Now Tactics are another matter and should never be discussed.

I think DND is just affraid of more 'Somalia' type footage hitting the air.
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Offline techie

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All photos or video taken while on duty must be cleared through your CoC before being released. While on tour, i would think you are always on duty.OPSEC, PERSEC must also be respected, that's why you go through your CoC. I love watching combat videos myself, but i dint want anyone to put themselves in the line of fire for doing this.

Also, i could see them wanting to prevent a video being released with say an offhand comment about "towel heads"(but worse), and that getting out, that would only fuel the fire for the anti-war groups. Politics would come into play after that, huge controversy, and who knows what would happen after that.
It is better to keep your mouth shut, and have someone think you are stupid, then to open your mouth and prove them right.

Offline silentbutdeadly

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I am going to wait on this for abit till i see what all the pers who will never ever be in a combat video ssay about this before i say anything! :threat:

Offline GAP

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Some of the video coming out of the Sandbox through the media is excellent, taken in context, with audio to explain what is happening. It is good for the mission, it is good for the troops.

That said, I sure as hell would not have wanted a convenient video camera around on some of our operations. Young men, full of piss and vinegar, a lot of bravado, pumped up during and immediately after a firefight....uhhhh...can anybody spell PR disaster?

A lot of things happen on the battlefield, and that's were they should stay. They are out of context, and out of order.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline cplcaldwell

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Nope sorry, if it was not cleared through chain of command and ended up in the public domain, then charge 'em.

It's not that a picture here or a picture there could compromise OPSEC it's that fifty or a hundred videos on youtube could provide the scraps, that when carefully put together, to form a powerful piece of intel.

It's not that a vid Billy and Bobby Canuck sitting in a fire position shooting the **** is bad, it's when a name is taken off a name tag, and a school bus blows up two months later in Little Red Neck SK and lo and behold Bobby's nephew is gone that's bad.

It's not that video of a Cdn pl in action compromises strategy but when six or eight such segments are studied in depth that a talented (En) IntOp could put together a very comprehensive picture of how any Cdn pl attacks and counter with moment by moment tactics that an attack turns into a blood bath. ('There see Omar, just after the grenade is fired they always wait a moment before coming over the fence/around the corner/through the door, it is at this time that we set off the IED in the yard/alley/hallway')

Nope, sorry, want to make a video of 'what you did in the war', burn it on a DVD, and show it to your grandkids in thirty years when they ask, other than that, 'Loose lips sink ships'.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 10:03:29 by cplcaldwell »
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Offline CK

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Force protection is a very big deal.  Every small peice of information adds to the the bigger intelligence picture [for the enemy], and video is a huge peice of that intelligence puzzle. 

I see the resolution of KAF on Google Earth has dropped considerably, and for very good reason.  I'm glad the powers that be a Google have realized the importance of Force Protection. 

There is a line between civil liberies/freedom of speech and keeping our troops safe, but when you are balancing your viewing pleasure with the lives of our soldiers, I am going to side with protecting our soldiers.  I'm sure everyone has seen the WWII poster of the soldier holding up the cup of coffee saying 'How about a nice cup of shut the #### up!"  The situation is not too different today, except most people dont realize that our society is at war, or the consequences or their actions, or for that matter losing.

Offline Target Up

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As an aside; I'm beginning to hate the term "military official".  DND official, I could swallow, but military official conjures up a mental image of a middle management desk jockey spouting off about the company line.  I'd prefer something else.....

tangent ends, carry on... :salute:
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline George Wallace

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On that note:

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20060731%2fafghan_video_soldiers_060809&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True

Forces probe video airing of Canadians in battle
09/08/2006 9:48:47 AM 
The Canadian military has launched an investigation after video of Canadians engaged in battle in Afghanistan was aired on U.S. television stations last week.

The video was allegedly taken by American freelance photojournalist Scott Kesterson, and was also posted on a popular Internet website.

However, it is Canadian military policy that all video from the war zone be cleared by military brass. The military fears unauthorized video could compromise their position.

The video clips in question shows Canadian soldiers engaged in battle with enemy forces, including an ambush on July 15th and a dawn raid on a Taliban compound two days earlier.

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Offline career_radio-checker

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In the near future...

"I have no live rounds, spent cassings, pyrotechnics or video photography in my possesion, Sir!"
How could anyone not fall in love with Canada's baby seals?... They make really good gloves.

Offline North Star

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From my occupational perspective: never post anything online of an operational nature. Never film anything operational unless it's to keep you out of trouble.

In the UK, a soldier who won a bravery decoration in Iraq was the intended victim of an alleged Islamic Jihadist's murder plot. The accused supposedly cobbled together details for his plan using the internet, media reports, and the like. The same could probably happen here, and given that The Maple Leaf often posts clear photos of troops with captions identifying the soldier and where they live, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Opsec gains new importance with the kind of enemy we're now facing. So watch those loose lips (they do sink ships) and avoid posting "cool" vids...
â Å“It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..."

Offline Devlin

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+1 for me

Keep the cameras video and otherwise out of the field period.

Offline cplcaldwell

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It isn't really important if they are playing 'three downs' and we are playing 'four downs'.

It isn't really important if they are playing on a 110 meter long field and we are playing on a 100 yard long field.

It's real important to remember that they are playing with a 35 yard deep end zone. We should remember that in case we set up our wives [sic] and kids (or anyone's for that matter) on the field of play because we misconstrued where the end zone stopped and the tail gate party began.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 11:50:48 by cplcaldwell »
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Offline Bobbyoreo

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If you really look into this it makes no sence unless it is giving away maps and other details. The News have shown battles less then 24hrs after they have happened on the news. Now it states this troop was already home off tour. These things are a thing of the past. So unless they gave away new targets, map and or other details of new missions I cant understand the problem. I guess youhave to see the whole problem first!!!
Facta Non Verba

Offline silentbutdeadly

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What are you talking about? >:(

Offline silentbutdeadly

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I agree with Bobby, i seen the videos, my freinds from my Coy are in the video and i see nothing wrong with it. There was no OPSEC issues at all. I guess jealousy has reared its ugly head again!

Offline cplcaldwell

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Bobby Oreo, WADR, I think your post is incorrect in its substance, here's why.

Quote
The News have shown battles less then 24hrs after they have happened on the news.


Yes, After the PaffO said "Okay, it's harmless release it". The devil is in the details.

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Now it states this troop was already home off tour. These things are a thing of the past.


Not unless the enemy can turn them into the future.

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I guess you have to see the whole problem first!!!

Yup, that's why I leave it to people like North Star, who seems to know that end of the business to tell me what to do.

IMHO. There are times when FIGMO is a perfectly acceptable way to do one's job.
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aesop081

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I guess jealousy has reared its ugly head again!

Congratulations, you were in Afghanistan....now get over yourself

Offline George Wallace

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I agree with Bobby, i seen the videos, my freinds from my Coy are in the video and i see nothing wrong with it. There was no OPSEC issues at all. I guess jealousy has reared its ugly head again!

I surprised at your comments.  You, yourself, felt the affects of OPSEC and PERSEC on your Tour.  How quickly you forget.
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Offline silentbutdeadly

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Yeah like on the ground fighting! risking my life , and if there's videos out that might educate future Infantry soldiers and show them how it is on the ground. Oh and i am far from over myself champ!

Offline silentbutdeadly

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My problem is then is no OPSEC over there and everyone there will tell you that. Thats what i think people don't understand , so complaining about on here is just funny, ask many person on here ie Jay4th and others.

Offline c1984ml

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Oh and i am far from over myself champ
  We noticed.  ::)


Offline silentbutdeadly

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And the reason i used the word jealousy is that some people see that stuff and feel its something wrong, but most combat arms see it as educational ie lessons learned

Offline George Wallace

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The matter in discussion is OPSEC and PERSEC.  The videos that were released by Scott Kesterson are probably going to clear any investigation, but what about the other photos, videos, emails coming out of Theatre?  Just look back to Somalia.  Look what a couple of posed photos did there.  It is too easy for any of these 'media' releases, no matter how innocent they may seem at the time, to fall into the wrong hands and be manipulated.  Look at what is happening in the Press in Lebanon.  

The whole idea is to think of OPSEC and PERSEC first before you release any media.
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Offline silentbutdeadly

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i agree George! photos are a bigger problem over there the videos. The guys are looking at OPSEC and the videos have been edited for PERSEC reasons.