Author Topic: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition  (Read 5327 times)

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Offline GAP

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We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« on: July 12, 2006, 08:50:18 »
Better protection needed for troops in Afghanistan  
UK Conservative Party Website
 http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=130851
Conservatives have urged the Government to re-examine all options to ensure our Armed Forces have the best possible protection.

They have warned that equipment problems are putting British troops in Afghanistan at increased risk.
More on link

I put this under Canadian Politics with the reasoning that it is something we could only wish for here in Canada.
The opposition is making its' political points, but it seems to be doing it in a constructive way.
We should wish for this much support for the CF from the opposition parties. All they seem to know what to do is, cry about bringing everybody home and we'll have a big hug party.
 
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline Hot Lips

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2006, 10:02:07 »
Well that's rather refreshing  :)

The opposition wouldn't be the opposition unless it continued to be in opposition to the government in power  ::)
Hence they will never agree/support...they are navel gazers

HL
"We're not the public service of Canada, we're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people."~ Gen. Hillier - CDS

Offline Thucydides

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2006, 15:27:36 »
What our curent parties (and even the Reform/Alliance and Conservatives) forgot was you can "oppose" by making constructive criticism, as opposed to constant whining and negativity. Prime Minister Harper made an effort to change this when he became leader of the opposition, and one would hope the Liberals, NDP and BQ would have learned the lesson.

Evidently they will need schooling for at least one (and I predict) or several sessions of Parliament, and maybe even an election or two befor the lesson sinks in.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Online E.R. Campbell

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2006, 08:36:45 »
It is difficult to retrain one’s sense of wonder at the monumental naivety and blind, destructive partisanship of Ujjal Dosanjh and, I think a significant part (a majority?) of the Liberal Party of Canada’s caucus.  Dosanjh says (See: below) that: ” "This has become almost totally a combat mission. And that was not the intention … We need to sit down with our NATO allies and refocus the mission."

If Mr. Dosanjh actually believes that then he, clearly, did not bother to listen to what his leader (and then defence minister) Bill Graham said when Paul Martin sent troops into the most dangerous part of Afghanistan – have dithered while all the ‘easy’ PRTs were snapped up by allies.  Mr. Graham did the famous body bag tour – reminding Canadians that the new mission would be much more dangerous than ISAF in Kabul.

Now, Mr. Dosanjh is not a stupid man – one does not get to be a community leader, provincial premier and a federal cabinet minister by being stupid.  He is however, it seems to me, ill informed and poorly advised – which indicates to me that he is a poor leader who can’t pick staff and is too lazy to read his briefs.  If he is well informed and has good advisors and listens to them then one can only conclude that he has allowed blind Liberal partisanship to get firmly and completely in the way of his duty as a public servant.

Here are his comments, from today’s Globe and Mail, reproduced here under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060804.AFGHANCAN04/TPStory/
Quote
Opposition urges review of Afghan mandate

Shift to heavy-duty combat requires talks with NATO allies, Liberal critic says

JEFF SALLOT and CAMPBELL CLARK AND GLORIA GALLOWAY

OTTAWA, CORNWALL, ONT. -- Canada's mission in Afghanistan has turned from peacekeeping to combat and must be "refocused," Liberal defence critic Ujjal Dosanjh said yesterday.

"This has become almost totally a combat mission. And that was not the intention," Mr. Dosanjh said. "We need to sit down with our NATO allies and refocus the mission."

Four Canadian soldiers were killed yesterday in Afghanistan in two separate incidents. Corporal Christopher Jonathan Reid of Truro, N.S., died overnight after a Canadian light-armoured vehicle was struck by a roadside bomb. About 10 hours later, three soldiers -- including Sergeant Vaughn Ingram and Cpl. Bryce Jeffrey Keller -- were killed and six were wounded in a rocket-propelled grenade attack in Pashmul, about 25 kilometres southwest of Kandahar. The third victim's name has not been released.

Yesterday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor talked about the national sorrow over the deaths of Canadian troops on foreign soil, but both expressed a resolve to continue the fight.

"Today, our forces have suffered serious casualties in Afghanistan. For those who have lost their family or their colleagues, these are always terrible moments. As fellow Canadians, I know that we all share their grief," Mr. Harper said during a luncheon speech he delivered at a hotel in Cornwall, Ont., where his caucus is holding a three-day retreat.

"But what the men and women in harm's way want and need to know in moments like this is that their government and Canadians stand behind their missions. And make no mistake, my friends -- through good times and bad, this government will honour their sacrifice, we will stand behind their mission and we are proud of the work that they are doing."

A poll conducted by the Strategic Counsel last month -- after the death of Canada's 17th soldier in Afghanistan, Cpl. Antony Boneca -- suggested that 56 per cent of Canadians opposed the mission, up 15 percentage points from March. But Mr. O'Connor said yesterday that his government is determined to stay the course.

The recent deaths don't change anything, he said. "Our commitment is till February '09, and we are going to continue in Afghanistan both from an aid point of view, from a diplomacy point of view and from a military point of view.

"It's pretty difficult but the soldiers I know are professionals and they will carry on. They accept the risks and, as I say, every once in a while we're a bit unlucky but we are going to stay the course."

The NDP will try to force the minority government to change its Afghanistan policy when Parliament begins its new session next month.

Dawn Black, the party's defence critic, said "this is a huge issue for the NDP."

New Democrats voted unanimously in the House this spring against a Conservative government motion to extend Canada's military involvement in Afghanistan.

Nothing has changed since to alter the party's view that Canada should not be fighting a counterinsurgency war in Afghanistan to support U.S. policy in the region, Ms. Black said in an interview.

Like the other parties, the NDP extended condolences to the families and friends of the slain soldiers. "This is a terrible day for Canadians," Ms. Black said.

While Liberals are increasingly questioning Canada's role in Afghanistan, the front-runner for the party's leadership said the mission has not changed, despite tragic casualties. "I don't think that in a moment of tragedy, when life has stopped for four Canadian families, that it's an appropriate moment to start re-evaluating the mission," Michael Ignatieff said.

He said that commanders in the field will have to assess whether Canada can reduce risk to its troops, but that he still supports the "broad political and strategic goals of the mission" -- and what has changed is not the goal, but the intensity of the Taliban offensive.

Liberal leadership candidate Bob Rae said that since Canadian troops in Afghanistan are under NATO command, NATO and the Canadian government must assess how the mission is going and whether its goals can be accomplished. Canadian troops went to Afghanistan to help establish rule of law and smooth the way for humanitarian aid, but are now engaged at least in part in counterinsurgency.

"I think that counterinsurgency would appear to be a significant part of what's going on," he said. "We are into that kind of a mission, and I think we really have to have the means to assess the success, the progress, how durable it is, how deep it is."

Amongst the many things Dosanjh and Bob Rae appear to misunderstand is that the Liberal Party of Canada was in power when our 3D strategy was put in place.  The aim is, indeed, to let diplomacy and development do their good works but they cannot even begin, in earnest, until defence provides them with a satisfactory degree of security – the murder of Canadian humanitarian Mike Frastacky, for the mortal sin of building a school in which girls might learn, illustrates the point.

It is vital, to our national security, that we do not cut and run.  We – the big ‘we’, the American led West – helped the Afghans throw out the Taliban.  Now we need to follow up on the Afghan people’s victory, we need to keep the Islamic radicals, our self-declared enemies, on the run; we must not allow them to set up their training camps and bases in Afghanistan again; we must send a message to all weak, failing and failed states that making a home for al Qaeda and their fellow travellers will result in a visit from tough, disciplined, deadly Canadian soldiers (and their fellow travellers, too)  – with all that implies.

It is time for Bill Graham to replace Ujjal Dosanjh with a a critic who understands our vital interests, our strategy and the proper, responsible role of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2006, 09:06:32 »
Liberal defence critic Ujjal Dosanjh:
Quote
Canada's mission in Afghanistan has turned from peacekeeping to combat and.....that was not the intention.

versus

"Front-runner for the Liberal party's leadership" Michael Ignatieff:
Quote
the mission has not changed, despite tragic casualties.... he still supports the "broad political and strategic goals of the mission" -- and what has changed is not the goal, but the intensity of the Taliban offensive.

Obviously two different sheets of music. And that the Party Whip isn't reining in one or the other illustrates a continuing underlying premise of the Liberal party.....it's not worth sorting out Dosanjh because he's been relegated to a meaningless shadow portfolio - - Defence. The Liberals didn't care when they were in power, they care even less when they're in Opposition.

Dosanjh's role is simply to out-bleat the NDP's Dawn Black in the hopes of garnering some further-left voters, no matter how poorly-informed his comments may be.

Offline Feral

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2006, 11:44:58 »
I don't know how to post the articles (or if we're allowed due to copyright issues), but there's another great one from the DIN newsroom (yes I know it's pretty much the same thing as was posted above, but the title really gets me going):

http://veritas.mil.ca/showfile.asp?Lang=E&URL=/fullfeed/national/0608/060804/VTC/060804ac.htm

I'm not usually one to comment on this stuff, more often than not I'm quite content to read what everyone else has to say, but this one really pisses me off. I'm not the biggest Stephen Harper fan in the world but at least he knows how to support the troops. Dosanjh needs to check his facts and pull his head out of his a$$.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Offline Signalman150

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2006, 12:24:26 »
Feral,

You cut and pasted the URL, which should have worked, but didn't.  Could you try again?

On another note, regarding Ujjal Dosanjh...I sent him a letter on 16 Jun 06, (see Army.ca Forums > The Mess > Canadian Politics > Topic: Comments By Opposition Defence Critic Regarding C-17 a/c). I "Info'd" the MND and his office at least sent back an automated reply that it had been received.  Still haven't heard anything from dear ol' Ujjal. I expected no less I suppose.

 I agree with Journeyman when he says "it's not worth sorting out Dosanjh". The guy's in way over his head and doesn't have a clue. I'm having trouble understanding why he was given the shadow portfolio for defence considering he's spent his entire political career involved in social issues and health care.

And yes, given the way our parliamentary system has run the last many years, we could only dream of constructive useful opposition.  It's all about counting coup for your party, not running Canada as efficiently and effectively as possible.  Maybe I'm just too cynical anymore, but I'm not sure it will ever change; it's become the fashion in Canadian politics.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 12:27:44 by Signalman150 »
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Offline Feral

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2006, 13:27:52 »
I just checked the URL, it works on my end.. It's only accessible from the DIN though.. The title that irked me though is:

Opposition blames Harper for deaths of Canadian troops: PM is forcing soldiers into combat by 'militarizing' conflict, says NDP critic

How Dosanjh got his job we'll never know. He actually seemed to be a decent politician when it came to health care though.. These personal attacks are just cheapening the whole system for me.

Offline Enfield

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2006, 15:50:23 »
Opposition blames Harper for deaths of Canadian troops: PM is forcing soldiers into combat by 'militarizing' conflict, says NDP critic

"militarizing conflict"?

He's kidding, right?
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2006, 20:26:35 »
"militarizing conflict"?

He's kidding, right?

Probably not.  You have to laugh at these clowns so you don't cry at their absurbity.  Refocus to "peacekeeping"  ::)  Who is going to send the memo to the Taliban.

Offline MdB

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2006, 21:55:41 »
Quote
Liberal leadership candidate Bob Rae said that since Canadian troops in Afghanistan are under NATO command, NATO and the Canadian government must assess how the mission is going and whether its goals can be accomplished. Canadian troops went to Afghanistan to help establish rule of law and smooth the way for humanitarian aid, but are now engaged at least in part in counterinsurgency.

Now that it takes 100% determination, as casualties are increasing, Bob Rea's comment sounds like a politician without political bowels. He can't accept the mission isn't Kabul now and that the offensive is the only way to go with Talibans. We don't need another evalutaion, we need to support the mission. Can't believe that guy...
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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: We could only wish for a Intelligent Opposition
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2006, 00:01:39 »
Let's keep this on topic folks, the Ruxted editorial points here.  Any off topic comments will be removed.