Author Topic: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?  (Read 7067 times)

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RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« on: April 23, 2006, 22:41:20 »
Anyone seen anything firmer on this (usual disclaimer, in Russian):

''Russian military planes flew undetected through the U.S. zone of the Arctic Ocean to Canada during recent military exercises, a senior Air Force commander said Saturday. The commander of the country's long-range strategic bombers, Lieutenant General Igor Khvorov, said the U.S. Air Force is now investigating why its military was unable to detect the Russian bombers. "They were unable to detect the planes either with radars or visually," he said. Khorov said that during the military exercises in April, Tu-160 Blackjack bombers and Tu-95 Bears had successfully carried out four missile launches. Bombing exercises were held using Tu-22 Blinders. ''

Only other references I've found are based on the original Russian Interfax news agency report:
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060422/46792049.html

Google News (as of 232239EDT Apr)...
http://tinyurl.com/zgqgm


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Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2006, 23:22:44 »
I don't get it, was this a "joint" excercise involving the USAF actively? Since that's why they said the USA is investigating why they didn't detect the bombers? Or was this a Russian only venture just to see if they can/could???

WTF are they trying to prove?

And to have actually made missle launches??? At what targets??!?! I don't bloody like this situation I'd have to say.

If it was a joint excercise was the Canadian Forces notified they'd be using OUR airspace and part of our ocean???

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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 00:56:45 »
The Russians have always tried to see how far they could get into our airspace as does the US over theirs.  As for the missle launches, they would have been exercise launches.
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Offline sober_ruski

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 01:35:12 »
Those would have been simulated launchas, as in you press a button and a computer missile hits a a computer target.

PS
Did they use email this time too?

PSS
I'm referring to the kitty hawk thing  ;D

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2006, 11:37:58 »
Ahh ok. Well in that case it's not so scary I suppose... But why still bother after all this time and the cold war???

I suppose it's just posturing and proving a point.
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Offline Freddy G

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2006, 11:42:29 »
While it appears that today it's just posturing, it does send the message to the US (and Canada) that we can't expect to push around Russia. I figure it goes along with Putin's ambitions to restore Russia to it's Soviet Union strength.

Also, for those who aren't aware, it's not the first time a bomber slips through our defenses. It happened repeatedly during the Cold War, and at least one Tupolev bomber actually landed in Canada because of an emergency. The point being, we've never been as safe as we thought we were--I guess Russia's trying to remind us of that.
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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2006, 11:46:07 »
"and at least one Tupolev bomber actually landed in Canada because of an emergency"

when was this?
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2006, 11:49:24 »
They don't have stealth bombers. As soon as those bomber's took off from their base they were being watched by satellite and radar.

Offline Lost_Warrior

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2006, 12:02:52 »
Do you have any proof of that?  I have been reading on other forums from people apparently "in the know" on this incident, had no idea the Russians were doing this until they reported it the next day.  I have read that the Russian planes were flying extremely low.   My "source" (if you want to call it that) could very well be wrong, so any insight would be appreciated.
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Offline sober_ruski

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2006, 14:13:15 »
They don't have stealth bombers. As soon as those bomber's took off from their base they were being watched by satellite and radar.
Regardless, they already set the precedence with flying under US radars and made US NAVY the laughing stock of the world by EMAILING them pictures of kitty hawk.

Offline Tango2Bravo

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2006, 14:20:51 »
Sober-ruski,

Ask countries within flying range of the ocean or whom rely on trade if they laugh at the US Navy.

Cheers,

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Offline Freddy G

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2006, 14:30:31 »
"and at least one Tupolev bomber actually landed in Canada because of an emergency"

when was this?

I don't recall the exact date (if I ever knew it--being that it's a story that was told to me by someone who was there) but it was in the late 1970s (77 or 78, I think). I was told this a couple years ago and didn't pay attention to all the details, I just thought it was an interesting story told by a reliable source.

What (allegedly) happened is the Tupolev was trying to poke through the radar cover to see how far he'd be able to go, and for some reason (extreme turbulance, apparently) the tail assembly was damaged enough to keep the plane from being able to return all the way to Russia. They sent out a mayday and Trenton (IIRC) let the Tupolev land. The plane was secured, summarily repaired, and sent on it's way back to Russia.

I do recall reading about similar stories, even including pictures, but I doubt I'd be able to find the websites again, seeing they were private and I'm unbelievably unlucky when it comes to finding sources for things like that. But I can try, if you want.

You can call BS if you want--I'd probably do the same if I hadn't heard it from someone who was there.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2006, 14:30:36 »
Like CFL, I am waiting for an answer to this one:

...... and at least one Tupolev bomber actually landed in Canada because of an emergency. The point being, we've never been as safe as we thought we were--I guess Russia's trying to remind us of that.

As for whether they did or did not carry out the intrusion to Canadian and American Air Space, doesn't really matter.  It would not be necessary to acknowledge the fact, if you did not want them to know your capabilities, especially if they were known to be of no threat.  They would have been monitored, as mentioned or alluded to in other posts.  To turn around and brag that we knew that they were unarmed before they boarded their aircraft, would not help our cause, but would in fact cause more harm than good if it was used to trump their claim.
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Offline old medic

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Offline sober_ruski

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2006, 16:00:44 »
Sober-ruski,

Ask countries within flying range of the ocean or whom rely on trade if they laugh at the US Navy.

Cheers,

2B
You know what I ment.
It was an insult to the injury when navy got the pics emaild to them.
It was pretty funny to see panic on the deck of kitty hawk when they tried to scramble jets. Pilots must have laughed their asses off.
Can it pulled again? Not likely,  but a point was made with a wing of planes capable of sinking that carrier doing flybys.

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2006, 16:35:10 »
The Tu-160 and the Tu-22M (later variants) are capable aircraft. Both are designed for low level penetration of air defences at subsonic speeds, or high level at supersonic speeds.

I would not at all be surprised if Tu-160's were able to go underneath our radar and penetrate our defences - it's the same strategy the US planned to use towards soviet air defences and represents a significant hole in most air defence systems I am aware of (thus specific low level air defence at high value targets)... though admittedly most of those that I am aware of are of Russian (Soviet) design .

I don't doubt the US knew they were in the area (as has been stated, they probably tracked their movements via satellite, as the Tu-160's are part of the Russian strategic nuclear force), but I am tempted to find the articles that state they got by our northern defences undetected credible.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 20:11:47 by couchcommander »

Offline DBA

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2006, 21:27:23 »
Odd since the Bear is so loud it's detected with underwater gear meant to detect subs. Still attention and resources might be concentrated elsewhere and this incursion was ignored or missed.
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Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2006, 21:36:11 »
You know what I ment.
It was an insult to the injury when navy got the pics emaild to them.
It was pretty funny to see panic on the deck of kitty hawk when they tried to scramble jets. Pilots must have laughed their asses off.
Can it pulled again? Not likely,  but a point was made with a wing of planes capable of sinking that carrier doing flybys.

My friend, if those pictures you are speaking of are black and white, those were actually taken by Soviet satellites, not aircraft. I learned this while watching a special on TV awhile back.

And I don't know if there was a more recent incident but the Kitty Hawk incident that I know of was back before email, about the time of Vietnam... When it was deployed there.

Maybe we're speaking of two seperate instances?
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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2006, 21:41:22 »
Odd since the Bear is so loud it's detected with underwater gear meant to detect subs. Still attention and resources might be concentrated elsewhere and this incursion was ignored or missed.

I would venture that they used a Tu-160 for this, not a Tu-95 - but that is just an educated guess, I haven't seen any reports to indicate one or the other.

Quote
My friend, if those pictures you are speaking of are black and white, those were actually taken by Soviet satellites, not aircraft. I learned this while watching a special on TV awhile back.

And I don't know if there was a more recent incident but the Kitty Hawk incident that I know of was back before email, about the time of Vietnam... When it was deployed there.

Maybe we're speaking of two seperate instances?

I believe the one they are referring to was in 2000 and involved a pair of Su-27's and an Su-24.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 23:55:13 by couchcommander »

Offline old medic

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2006, 21:57:20 »
It was October 17th 2000.   There was an AP article on it.   They were fighters, not bombers.
Use google gentlemen.

Quote
(AP) - After Russian fighters buzzed the USS Kitty Hawk in the
Sea of Japan on Oct. 17, the aircraft carrier took steps to enable a quicker
response if it happened again, Pentagon officials said.

The officials insisted that the incident did not pose a security threat to
the Kitty Hawk, although the carrier has since raised its "alert posture." ;
The officials refused to elaborate on the heightened security.

A week ago, Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon told reporters the Russian
planes stayed a "suitable distance away" from the Kitty Hawk. On Thursday,
however, he said he had misspoken and that the planes actually flew directly
over the carrier, at an altitude of several hundred feet, and that U.S.
interceptor planes could not immediately launch because the carrier was
moving too slowly while refueling.

"This is very similar to events that happened routinely during the Cold War,
but have not happened very often, if at all, since,'' Bacon said, adding
that U.S. planes generally do not buzz Russian ships.

Bacon said Russian planes also had approached within a few miles of the
Kitty Hawk on Oct. 12, and came within 1,000-2,000 feet of it on Nov. 9. In
all three instances, the Kitty Hawk battle group picked up the Russian
planes on radar many miles away, he said.

The Kitty Hawk is based at Yokosuka, Japan.

In an added twist, Bacon disclosed that the Russians e-mailed to the Kitty
Hawk two photographs that the fighter planes took as they overflew the
carrier Oct. 17. Navy spokesman Rear Adm. Stephen Pietropaoli said the
e-mail included a brief written message in Russian but he balked at
revealing what it said.
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couchcommander

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2006, 22:38:47 »
The Su-24 can be used in a maritime strike role amongst others. Overall it's concept it somehwat similar to an F-111. The Su-27's are indeed fighters. The articles I rememeber reading said it was a single Su-24 with a pair of Su-27's, if you like I can go digging to find it.



Offline Centurian1985

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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2006, 23:00:44 »
There appears to be ample proof of the Russian fighters buzzing the Kitty Hawk.  It is posible but requires the right weather conditions, lack of real-time satellite coverage, and a reduced state of readiness among the carrier group (i.e. refueling operations or very rough weather that precludes the ability to keep top cover in place).

Ref. the plane landing in Canada, I have heard the same story of a Tu-95 reportedly landed someplace in the Yukon or NWT, put have to admit I nevern saw any proof. 

Ref. the plane sneaking through US airspace; as unlikely as many people may think this could be, what is important is that I dont see any articles from US sources denying that this happened! 

Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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Russian Bombers flew into Canadian Territory over Arctic?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2006, 12:38:22 »
Ummmm.....interesting if true.


Matthew.    ???

- - - - -

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Russian_Bombers_Flew_Undetected_Across_Arctic.html

MILTECH
Russian Bombers Flew Undetected Across Arctic

A Russian Tu-160 Blackjack bomber flies undetected.
by Staff Writers
Moscow, Russia (RIA) Apr 24, 2006

Russian military planes flew undetected through the U.S. zone of the Arctic Ocean to Canada during recent military exercises, a senior Air Force commander said Saturday. The commander of the country's long-range strategic bombers, Lieutenant General Igor Khvorov, said the U.S. Air Force is now investigating why its military was unable to detect the Russian bombers.
"They were unable to detect the planes either with radars or visually," he said.

Khorov said that during the military exercises in April, Tu-160 Blackjack bombers and Tu-95 Bears had successfully carried out four missile launches. Bombing exercises were held using Tu-22 Blinders.

By the end of the year, two more Tu-160s will be commissioned for the long-range strategic bomber fleet, Khorov said.

Both new planes will incorporate numerous upgrades from the initial Soviet models, the commander said. The bombers will be able to launch both cruise missiles and aviation bombs, and communicate via satellite.

Source: RIA Novosti


 
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Russian Bombers flew into Canadian Territory over Arctic?
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2006, 12:57:26 »
I wonder if they may have filed 'Flight Plans' ?
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Re: RUS Bombers Sneak Thru CAN Arctic?
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2006, 17:39:08 »
Nevermind....
« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 17:45:46 by Strike »
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