Author Topic: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan  (Read 244877 times)

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Online E.R. Campbell

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #625 on: July 16, 2009, 13:42:23 »
I prefer not to get too excited by poll results... look at this one:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Somnia/1795206/story.htmlIf this is any indation of "reality", it could mean that the CDN public is starting to understand that one can support the Troops regardless of their opinion of the political aspects of the current war. Now that should be good news.


I have an old and dear friend, a research scientist - a well educated, thoughtful person (the two do not always go together), who fits that bill. She is quite opposed to the Afghanistan mission because she believes we have the wrong war aims (she opposes the Taliban and al Qaeda but she opposes the Global War on Terror even more). She is, however, very proud of "her" Canadian Forces - as a good citizen she understands that they are doing "her" bidding, even though she disagrees with the government's policies - and feels deep sadness at each casualty. Her position is nuanced but not internally or intellectually inconsistent. I suspect she is not alone and the reportedly broad and growing opposition to the war is accompanied by broad and growing support for the CF.
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Offline ruckmarch

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #626 on: July 16, 2009, 14:11:26 »
ipsos reid asked 1000 people to arrive at their recent conclusion. How does that represent the whole country and every demographic or background of people there is out there?

These kind of polls have FLAWS written all over them IMHO

Offline 40below

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #627 on: July 16, 2009, 14:32:42 »
ipsos reid asked 1000 people to arrive at their recent conclusion. How does that represent the whole country and every demographic or background of people there is out there?

These kind of polls have FLAWS written all over them IMHO

If you're asking how polls can possibly extrapolate from a small sample size, you should take a statistics 101 class. If you're asserting all polls are BS because you don't understand how they work, you should definitely take a statistics 101 class.

Offline ruckmarch

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #628 on: July 16, 2009, 14:48:35 »
If you're asking how polls can possibly extrapolate from a small sample size, you should take a statistics 101 class. If you're asserting all polls are BS because you don't understand how they work, you should definitely take a statistics 101 class.

Am not insinuating that, you ought to read my post again. If I didn't know how they worked, I sure wasn't going to ask someone like you, that has to say the same thing twice.

What is your nickname.....johnny two times?

Offline 2 Cdo

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #629 on: July 16, 2009, 14:58:31 »
If you're asking how polls can possibly extrapolate from a small sample size, you should take a statistics 101 class. If you're asserting all polls are BS because you don't understand how they work, you should definitely take a statistics 101 class.

As someone who has been polled TWICE and hung up both times after asserting my strong support for the mission, I'm saying that I don't trust the polls due to a possible bias by the poller. I won't trust them anymore, and I don't give any credence to their "findings".

AIRBORNE
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Offline Baden Guy

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #630 on: July 16, 2009, 15:11:39 »
West is pro the mission, East is anti the mission.

Sounds statistically valid to me. :nod:

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #631 on: July 16, 2009, 15:37:50 »
Quote
The biggest boost of support came from Quebec, where the number jumped to 76 per cent from 58 per cent.

Probably because 5 Bde is there right now.  That number will more than likely drop when this Roto is over.
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Offline giver

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #632 on: July 17, 2009, 22:20:52 »
No wonder we were never going to win the war. The country didn't support it in the first place.

Offline zipperhead_cop

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #633 on: July 17, 2009, 22:23:39 »
No wonder we were never going to win the war. The country didn't support it in the first place.

Banned in one post is the record.  You are way over the mark, so either contribute something useful or knock it off. 
Please.
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Offline giver

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #634 on: July 17, 2009, 22:37:59 »
Banned in one post is the record.  You are way over the mark, so either contribute something useful or knock it off. 
Please.
If you ban me you might as well ban the other 54%.

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #635 on: July 17, 2009, 22:53:07 »
If you ban me you might as well ban the other 54%.

Chances are, they're not here.  Give it up.
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Offline giver

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #636 on: July 17, 2009, 23:06:16 »
There has got to be other Canadians here with the same logic as I do. Or is everyone here 100% pro Afghanistan?

Offline zipperhead_cop

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #637 on: July 17, 2009, 23:27:25 »
There has got to be other Canadians here with the same logic as I do. Or is everyone here 100% pro Afghanistan?

Dude, what site do you think you are on?  Perhaps rabble.ca will find you more support.
There are quite a few different opinions on how the mission should be run, but pretty much everyone here believes that it is worth it to try to help the people of Afghanistan because a) they can use the help and b) ignoring that country after the Russians left is what helped lead to Islamic extremism over there.
As well, everyone here welcomes intellectual discourse.  If you have some informed reasons for us to abandon Afghanistan then share them.  So far, you haven't really offered that, just pointing to a flawed poll and agreeing with it.
Just some friendly advice.
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Offline mellian

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #638 on: July 18, 2009, 02:09:33 »
I am personally against the war, at least for lasting as long as it did. I am all for helping the people there, just that Afghanistan is not the only country and people that need help (help as in local kind of help and sensitive to the culture and perspectives). We, including our allies, do not have the means and resources to 'help' every single country that need help, or even those deem security threats.

All the positive reasons for being there can be applied to many other places, and it is really not why we went there in the first place. Canada went in in support of their allies and commitment to NATO who reacted to the Taliban harboring those who help orchestrate 9/11. They needed someone to hit, and we helped. Otherwise, we wouldn't have gone to Afghanistan and the country would still generally be ruled by the Taliban. 

Once the mission ends, would be good for Canada to consolidate, rest, and refurbish/update, and try avoid situations having our fair chunk of the military committed to one area for nearly a decade or more. 

So yes...


Offline TCBF

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #639 on: July 18, 2009, 04:00:49 »
No wonder we were never going to win the war. The country didn't support it in the first place.

- It isn't Canada that needs to support the war.  It's Afghanistan that needs to support the war. 

 ;D
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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #640 on: July 18, 2009, 04:25:52 »
More details from the Ipsos-Reid poll for CanWest News/National Post (news rls attached - highlights mine)...

"Canadians’ support for the current mission in Afghanistan is holding relatively steady according to a new Ipsos Reid poll conducted on behalf of Canwest News Service and Global Television. In 2005 support for the Afghanistan mission was at 52% and is now at 48% -- this at a time when the first half of July alone has witnessed 43 coalition troops having died including four Canadians, one Italian, 15 British and 23 Americans.

But what’s apparent now is that only 41% of Canadians support any ongoing role—including non combat where training of Afghani troops would continue: 52% are now resolved in their belief that once this commitment is concluded in 2011 it’s time for Canada’s military role to end and have the troops fully out of Afghanistan (7% are unsure or don’t know).

This is clearly a change in support for the policy of Canada being in Afghanistan, not a reflection on the conduct of its Forces: the poll finds that support for Canada’s troops has increased by five points since 2007 (77%) to 82% now with Canadians being “proud of the men and women who serve in Canada’s Armed Forces.” The biggest boost in support has been in Quebec—up an astonishing 18 points from 58% to 76% but countered by a drop in support from 78% to 64% (down 14 points) in Manitoba /Saskatchewan where debate was fuelled in 2008 by the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence which found inconsistent care across the country with wounded Canadian soldiers returning from overseas and not be getting the most effective care. In this context, the downturn in “support” in the Prairies may not be a reflection on the troops themselves but rather in the state of affairs provided to them and their families by the Forces after their return.


Support for Military Mission to Afghanistan Has Remained Relatively Stable Since 2005…

The latest poll has found that one half (48%) of Canadians ‘support’ (22% strongly, 26% somewhat) ‘the use of Canada’s troops for security and combat efforts against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan’. By comparison, in January of 2008, one half (50%) of Canadians supported the mission, demonstrating virtually no change in public sentiment towards the mission that expires in 2011.

Conversely, 45% currently ‘oppose’ (23% strongly/21% somewhat) the mission, down 1 point from last year. Seven percent (7%) don’t know if they support or oppose the mission, up 3 points from 2008.

A Majority of Canadians Seem to be Saying “We’ve done our bit, bring our troops home”…
A majority (52%) believes that Canada should bring its troops home at the end of the mission in 2011, up from 37% (14 points) in January of 2008 and 44% in 2007, clearly indicating that sentiment towards Canada’s future in Afghanistan has shifted significantly in the last 18 months...."

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Offline Rinker

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #641 on: July 18, 2009, 13:37:09 »
How many people here talk to people who don't support the war, but don't really know why they don't support the war. They just say it is war, it doesn't help. Now there has got to be a lot of those types.
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Offline jacksparrow

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #642 on: July 18, 2009, 14:26:06 »
I am personally against the war, at least for lasting as long as it did. I am all for helping the people there, just that Afghanistan is not the only country and people that need help (help as in local kind of help and sensitive to the culture and perspectives). We, including our allies, do not have the means and resources to 'help' every single country that need help, or even those deem security threats.

All the positive reasons for being there can be applied to many other places, and it is really not why we went there in the first place. Canada went in in support of their allies and commitment to NATO who reacted to the Taliban harboring those who help orchestrate 9/11. They needed someone to hit, and we helped. Otherwise, we wouldn't have gone to Afghanistan and the country would still generally be ruled by the Taliban. 

Once the mission ends, would be good for Canada to consolidate, rest, and refurbish/update, and try avoid situations having our fair chunk of the military committed to one area for nearly a decade or more. 

So yes...

So you think we don't have a presence elsewhere then at the moment? Are you in the military or about to join?

We aren't the only country over there, the UK has lost just as much people over there and they were in Iraq as well. Canada is made up of of different background of people, and we aren't going to sit back and watch people's country of origin go to the dogs if there is a legitimate case for us to be there helping out in any way shape or form.

Offline zipperhead_cop

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #643 on: July 18, 2009, 16:23:57 »
I am personally against the war, at least for lasting as long as it did. I am all for helping the people there, just that Afghanistan is not the only country and people that need help (help as in local kind of help and sensitive to the culture and perspectives). We, including our allies, do not have the means and resources to 'help' every single country that need help, or even those deem security threats.

All the positive reasons for being there can be applied to many other places, and it is really not why we went there in the first place. Canada went in in support of their allies and commitment to NATO who reacted to the Taliban harboring those who help orchestrate 9/11. They needed someone to hit, and we helped. Otherwise, we wouldn't have gone to Afghanistan and the country would still generally be ruled by the Taliban. 

Once the mission ends, would be good for Canada to consolidate, rest, and refurbish/update, and try avoid situations having our fair chunk of the military committed to one area for nearly a decade or more. 

So yes...

So you figure that it's a good idea to leave the people of Kandahar high and dry, just because they didn't get their act together fast enough for your liking?  Perhaps we should have done that to the Turks and Greeks and abandoned Cypress as well?  Stick Europe, the Russians wouldn't dare nuke them?  And doubtless we shouldn't even be even thinking of anybody being in FRY? 
Investing a decade (which it hasn't been yet) in the face of 30 years of war and global neglect doesn't seem to be such a long time. 
But doubtless we should race to Darfur and give them the very best our country can offer.
For no more than seven months of course.  Then it's GTFO time. 
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Offline leroi

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #644 on: July 18, 2009, 21:45:46 »
I cut and paste this May 5th 2009 email response to me from the Kabul Center for Strategic Studies. I place it here because it's a good reminder that the peoples of Afghanistan do appreciate the efforts made by our Canadian Forces and others. I've edited out the individuals name who responded. I'd sent him links to a few Toronto print media "stories" that some of us thought were mis-representing his country and the Canadian mission in Afghanistan as well as sending him some links to Canadian ongoing fundraising efforts for Afghanistan. So here's a little glimpse of what some  people in Afghanistan think of Canada's efforts on their behalf:


Dear Joan,

Thank you for your email. Well your vision for Afghanistan is appreciable and adorable. I never thought that there is someone who think about my country when she is passing her college. [He misunderstood my email and thought I was a young college student as opposed to being middle-aged (can ya say old? lol) and just taking a few History courses.]
 
I am happy that there is still goodwill among Canadians about their Forces mission in Afghanistan and their lovely vision of helping the Afghan women. I think your country's Forces play a vital role in post-Taliban Afghanistan in the former strong hold and place of birth of the Taliban. Canadians are really in effort to provide a better situation for Afghans.

Thank you for the links provided me. I hope that your efforts be blessed and as an Afghan I thank all of your brave women. [Here he refers to a Women's Day fund raising breakfast for Afghan women I'd written to him about.]
 
Well there are many warm countries with cold and freezed minds, mindsets and impressions. I think, although your country is cold, but enjoys from many warm people like you. [Re: I'd whined a bit to him about the Canadian winter.]
 
Regards,
 
[name edited out]

Offline Larkvall

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #645 on: July 18, 2009, 23:07:15 »

Well I have something to say on this matter.

For the record I am 39 and I have never served in the armed forces, but I am applying to the Reserves.

I am very disturbed at what I am hearing in this thread.

You know when I was a teenager there was no question or choice who the enemy was. I remember sitting in history classes watching a documentary in which they asked Canadian tank crews how long they thought they would survive if WWIII broke out. I don't think anybody answered over 2 hours. That would have been a HARD war but they were willing to fight it.

Now the good news is the whole world won the Cold War.

NOW here are some facts for you:

1) We are part of NATO
2) The US was attacked
3) They asked for assistance

Get over it.

Do you people even know what the Taliban are about? They didn't allow girls to go to school and boys could only learn religion. They banned tv to cut people off from the rest of the world. Imagine what the country would look like after a couple generations of this! You don't think this would be a problem?

Here is an idea. I am sure the UN would love some troops for Somalia peacekeeping. What could be "hard" about a mission there? <sarcasm>

Offline zipperhead_cop

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #646 on: July 18, 2009, 23:22:02 »
They banned tv to cut people off from the rest of the world. Imagine what the country would look like after a couple generations of this! You don't think this would be a problem?

Well, that would explain why Kandahar Has Talent and Degrassi Jr Madrassa suck so much.   ;D j/k

Great post.  Nice to see a civilian who "gets" it.   :salute:
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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #647 on: July 19, 2009, 05:32:58 »
In my opinion from what I am studying about (taking a course called War and Society) our military is not designed to fight insurgents. Ok let me make it clear before i go on, I'm not saying we are going to lose for sure, all wars can be won or lost. Our military originally before Afghanistan, is trained in a Western style of warfare, in this kind of warfare we look for pitch battles, quick victory and to fight uniform personal. This is what we are taught in the public too in some extant. We remember the battle of Vimy Ridge for an example, but in the war in Afghanistan there are no specific battlefields, the whole country is the battlefield. I think this is one of the number one problem facing the public, because we as the general public is so fixated of finding "that" battle or "that" operation. If you go on the streets and ask the average Canadian, "name me a battle in Afghanistan or an operation" a majority of them will not know. But if you ask them a WW2 or WW1 battle or operation they will likely to give you an answer(a grade 11 student can name Somme and a grade 12 student can name Operation Overlord they teach it in school at least when i was in secondary school). In Afghanistan there is constant skirmishes in some nameless place in the middle of a hamlet not heard of in Canada. Another problem that is plaguing the public is that the lack of knowledge or interest, honestly (I live in BC) I ask some people at my campus and on the streets they don't really care, they have lost interest, some feel we have been there for far too long, we should pull out, we are still fighting in Afghanistan? (<-----one of my favorite answers, gee they can get a math degree but don't know whats out the door), etc.... The constant news of soldiers getting killed is more lethal then a bomb, because it spread like a cancer, the general public get demoralize quickly. Simple answers such as "lets just pull out and leave" is a very appealing answer for the public. Furthermore as mention before news from the media is hazards, they either post ambiguous, lies and sometimes truth about the situation. One example is the Tet Offensive in the Vietnam War.

Well that's my summary of why we are having such a hard time on the field and at home. i believe that we can win this war, we shouldn't be quick to judge the war is over, it may be longer then WW2, but at the end what really matter is "do we have the will to go on?" and "are we doing everything possible adapt our tactics efficiently to destroy our enemies".

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #648 on: July 19, 2009, 10:17:52 »
burnaby, as you noted about your studies in history, it often takes the passage of time for things to be ingrained in a society's "memory".  While not every Canadian will be able to name "The Battle of the Panjwai" or "Operation Medusa" now, many might in the future.  There are Canadians who now know at least the name, or even some context to "The Battle of the Medak Pocket" in the Former Yugoslavia where Canadian and some French troops interposed between Croat and Serb forces to protect the Serbs in the village of Medak.

Regards
G2G

Offline Larkvall

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Re: Canadian Public Opinion Polls on Afghanistan
« Reply #649 on: July 19, 2009, 15:58:28 »

Here is a documentary on the Battle of Medak Pocket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-AvcKJnx9I