Author Topic: Air Defence Units New Role?  (Read 15474 times)

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Offline CBH99

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Air Defence Units New Role?
« on: November 23, 2004, 15:10:12 »
What is happening to the Reserve AD units?

With the removal of the Javelin AD system coming over the horizon, Reserve AD units won't have a weapon system in which to engage aircraft.  Nor, to my knowledge, is there a replacement on the table either.

I would have thought that keeping man portable AD resources would have been a good idea, seeing how we're always going to unpredictable places.  But if we get rid of the Javelin AD system, that means the only AD resources we have left are Skyguard units (a whopping 10, used for training) - and the ADATS.  Although the ADATS is pretty damn good at what it does, our forces are losing a lot of flexibility in terms of AD capabilities with the removal of the Javelin AD system.

So, will the Reserve AD units get re-rolled to something else?  Or will they continue to "train" with simulators and whatnot, but be without actual AD systems for a few years?
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Offline birdgunnnersrule

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Re: What is happening to the Reserve AD units?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2004, 20:15:49 »
Too bad about the Reserve units, but the Total Force concept never really worked with such a small trade.  Too many Regular Force personnel tied up supporting Reserve Force Training.  We need to move to one place, preferably Edmonton to be an asset in either the DFT or Air Defence role.   The remaining Air Defence capability will be the ADATS, which may only be as a secondary role with the Direct Fire concept coming on line.  The current plan is to get rid of the Skyguard as well.  It has only been used in Cold Lake to support the Air Force during the past two years.  As for the plan for Reserve Force units, they will definitely be rerolled.  Sorry, but I am not certain what the units will be rerolled to.  Hopefully we can keep them in the Arty family.

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Re: What is happening to the Reserve AD units?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2004, 00:16:48 »
From what I hear, my old AD unit is supposedly becoming a field arty unit.

Offline cbt arms sub tech

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Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2005, 17:24:26 »
Whats the deal with the Air Defence, whats there new role in the new army Hillier is calling it!


Offline Royal76

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2005, 17:42:03 »
Air defense is going to be folded into the new Direct Fire Support (DFS) regiment. The ADATs will be mounted on a LAV chassis and called the Multi-Mission Effects Vehicle (MMEV) and will be primarily used in the anti-tank role.  Skyguard and Javelin will be retired and MMEV will be the only AD system left in the army- but air defense will be its secondary role.  AD units will be disbanded.  The current plan is to have the MGS, LAV TUA and MMEV all under one roof (the DFS).  In fact, they are going to put AD gunners on the Advanced Anti-Armour course this fall in Wainwright.
Personally, I think that we still need a MANPADS capability.  This would be a good role for the reserves.  Not sure what the plan for reserve AD Regts is.
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Offline kincanucks

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2005, 17:57:53 »
I believe they are being rerolled to field artillery.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2005, 18:00:03 »
I think they will be re-rolled to something different.

Offline TCBF

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2005, 18:15:52 »
How about Artillery Regiments still, but with mortars?  Light, cheap, easy to store in the Armoury, cheap Ammo, able to go on deployments, still maintain the Gunner traditions incase we see the light and buy real kit someday.

I am a Crewman, so what do you Gunners think?

Tom
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Offline Royal76

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2005, 18:30:30 »
TCBF,
I agree with your suggestion of re-rolling reserve AD units to a mortar role.  Mortars are still play a very important role in the battlefield.  Unfortunately, most of the arty units shelve them in their stores and train very littel on them (to the best of my knowledge- but I am not a gunner!).  Giving them to the reserves would keep the skill set alive.  The added advantage is that since mortar bombs are comparatively cheaper than javelin missiles, there would be some good opportunity to train live fire.
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Offline mondo

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2005, 18:41:49 »
as a corporal, or a bombadiar in a join force unit, the 18th Air Defense Regiment out of Lethbrridge, Alberta this topic was abit interesting for me to read, and reply to.

The regular force members that are posted here, (40 or so) are all being posted out as early as the end of April with the majority out by May / June. These leaves reservists like myself wondering what kind of role we will see in the future. Field guns are out of the question atleast for us. The unit's has been updating us on any decisions made, and our unit's future was all the way to Ottawa to let the big-wigs figure it out. So far i've heard either mortars (105mm) or Field engineers because 41 BDG needs more engineers.

I as a gunner on the Javelin system am more then happy to see this outdated piece of kit finally abadonened. In modern day war this piece of kit would not hold up against other fire and forget systems that are ruling the battleifield in terms of MANPAS systems. It was just in Feb. 05 our unit had the last live fire exercise on the Javelin before we were finally to forget about it. Out of 72 missiles that went down range, we had only 3 direct hits on the drones. There was above miserably firing condiitions not counting the fact we were firing on impact settings.

my 2 cents
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Offline MrGnr27

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2005, 21:13:15 »
Royal76: The Reserve Arty Regts don't have mortars yet. That is, unless they got them from the Reserve Infantry units that had them. I could see that happening once the Regular Guns got the tubes off of the Regular Infantry Bns. Last time I was on the Rideau, there was talk of two Reserve Arty Regts going to 81mm mortars completely. ( I was told the actual unit names, but I don't wish to be "Chicken Little", as it were ).

Mondo: 81mm, not 105mm. We were, however, going to purchase the Brandt Hitchkiss 120 mm mortar at one time ( after the demise of the 4.2 inch mortar, that being just a tad before my time ). The Brandt 120 "project" has come up no less than three times since I started to lace up a boot.

As for re-roling 18 AD to Engineers....well, the Fd Engr Sqn in Trail BC used to be a Gunner outfit !!!

Ubique

Offline GINge!

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2005, 14:55:45 »
as a corporal, or a bombadiar in a join force unit, the 18th Air Defense Regiment out of Lethbrridge, Alberta this topic was abit interesting for me to read, and reply to.

The regular force members that are posted here, (40 or so) are all being posted out as early as the end of April with the majority out by May / June. These leaves reservists like myself wondering what kind of role we will see in the future. Field guns are out of the question atleast for us.

All the VSHORAD units are being re-rolled Fd Arty. Not sure if you will stay your own Regt, or become a Bty within an existing Regt in LFWA. Not sure if you will be on 81's or 105's.

How's that for half an answer?
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Offline Big Foot

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2005, 15:05:40 »
Speaking with LCol Douglas, Cmdt of the Field Artillery School, RCA, he stated that all AD reserve units are being changed over to field artillery with equipment details still in the works. However, he seemed to make it sound like there will be a mix of mortars and actual guns designated to the different units, with a final decision coming soon.
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Offline Savage_Tactical

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2005, 20:08:09 »
To bring this one back to life... Do you all think the AD reg force will have different roles too? I mean many of their weapons are on the way out, seems like ADATS is pretty much the only way to go... not sure if they've had their eyes on any other different systems.

I guess safe to say that they'll have me pegged for ADATS if everything else is going.

Offline Bomber

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2005, 07:43:27 »
MrGnr27

56 RCA has converted to mortars and has brought them out on the last two summer concentrations.  They had 5 tubes on the one that finished last week.  They still have their C3's. or did the last time I talked to one of their number ones, but they were only being used for salutes, and one field ex a year to keep rust from forming on the troops skill set with them.

Offline Observer23

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2005, 10:26:59 »
The new folks over in 1 AD have been talking there trades qual as Fd gunners.  The last one I spoke to (this week) stated they were getting C3 105mm.  With them being supported out of Pet, they could take advantage of the full tech support that is already in place for 2 RCHA.
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Offline Bomber for Life

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2005, 11:11:19 »
The new folks over in 1 AD have been talking there trades qual as Fd gunners.   The last one I spoke to (this week) stated they were getting C3 105mm.   With them being supported out of Pet, they could take advantage of the full tech support that is already in place for 2 RCHA.

What a logistical and training nightmare, imagine all the troops, #1's, 2iC's, TSM, GPO, etc. to have to train. Its going to take them years to get up to speed.

Offline kincanucks

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2005, 11:55:32 »
What a logistical and training nightmare, imagine all the troops, #1's, 2iC's, TSM, GPO, etc. to have to train. Its going to take them years to get up to speed.

How about giving the AD a little more credit then that.  First of all, there is some Fd experience skill/knowledge in the AD units and secondly, Fd Arty is definitely not rocket science.  Ubique.
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Online Old Sweat

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2005, 12:00:12 »
Over the years a number of units, not only air defence, have been converted to field artillery. It takes time, but it can be done successfully.

Offline Bomber for Life

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2005, 10:29:10 »
How about giving the AD a little more credit then that.   First of all, there is some Fd experience skill/knowledge in the AD units and secondly, Fd Arty is definitely not rocket science.   Ubique.

You didn't understand what I meant, I didn't mean that they arn't smart enough to do it, I just meant that getting the courses together, peoples timetables, schedules, for all the required courses and actually running them will take years.

Offline kincanucks

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Re: Air Defence Units New Role?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2005, 12:14:11 »
arn't

Got it now. ;D
- Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
- If we are the only intelligent life in the universe, at least there's a finite number of idiots.
- Just when you realize life's a *****, it has puppies.