Author Topic: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2  (Read 44740 times)

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Offline soldiers301

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Hre is 3 photo. One show 3 variant of the C7A2 Rifle, and the other show the different Sniper Rifle of Canada ! And finally, the new C9A2.
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D-n-A

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2004, 16:16:00 »
Actually in the first picture, two of the rifles are C8A2s? and the one in the middle is the C7A2.

Two of the sniper rifles look like the C7C2/SR25, and the third one is a McMillian TAC .50


Offline soldiers301

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2004, 17:05:39 »
Yeah it is !
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2004, 17:25:14 »
The top and bottom weapons in the first pic have different barrels.  Is the top one a Diemaco SFW?

Doesn't have the modular handguards though.

Cool pics whatever they are.  Where are they from?

Crazy_Eyes

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2004, 17:27:01 »
Is the barrel on the C9 supposed to be that short? I've seen other pictures and it looks longer, sorry guys still a civvie

Offline WB

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2004, 17:31:37 »
Quote
Actually in the first picture, two of the rifles are C8A2s? and the one in the middle is the C7A2.

I think the bottom one is a C8 and the top one is either an SFW or a C7A2 with an SFW upper receiver. Maybe KevinB would know the difference. On the top one you can just make out an ambidextrous fire control selector and it looks like it has a heavy barrel too.

Quote
Is the barrel on the C9 supposed to be that short?

On the current C9 the barrel is longer, but on this new version its shorter. Also, check out the built in iron sights. SWEET!!

On another note, has anyone used any of the other kinds of simunition seen on the C9 pic?

*EDIT* I'm pretty sure the top one is a C7A2 with an SFW upper receiver because its my understanding that the SFW does NOT have the ambidextrous fire control selector.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2004, 17:43:40 by Ghostwalk »

Offline Scotty

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2004, 17:33:34 »
It (the top one) does indeed have a heavy barrel.  Appears to have everything the SFW does except modular handguard.

Offline soldiers301

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2004, 17:37:08 »
The top and bottom weapons in the first pic have different barrels. Is the top one a Diemaco SFW?

Doesn't have the modular handguards though.

Cool pics whatever they are. Where are they from?

They are from an Equipment Demonstration in Toronto on March 3th 2004.

Here is a direct link to the rest of Equipment demonstrated : http://www.army.dnd.ca/GGHG/Photo_EquipDemo_1.htm


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Offline Scotty

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Offline greentips

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2004, 12:05:07 »
Actually in the first picture, two of the rifles are C8A2s? and the one in the middle is the C7A2.

Two of the sniper rifles look like the C7C2/SR25, and the third one is a McMillian TAC .50



THe middle one is a commerical Armalite AR10 in 762

Offline Rounder

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2004, 13:53:41 »
We're becoming, if not already, the best equipped Army in the world.
If you're on time... you're already 10 minutes late.

Who owns the Chiefs?

Crazy_Eyes

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2004, 20:11:48 »
Yeah, it does seem like were getting some pretty good stuff....Just need alot more of it ;)

Offline soldiers301

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2004, 22:03:01 »
Yeah, the Canadian Ground Force is to be equiped with all the best available in the next few year !

 :salute: :cdn:
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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2004, 22:25:27 »
Rounder give your head a shake.   With personal gear maybe.  Overall not even close.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
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Offline Proud Forester

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2004, 09:21:14 »
Those C7s/C8s look pretty kick ***, and the C9 too, i wonder how much of an acuracy drop there is with the shorter barrel? I am excited by the different calibers of simunition, makes for better training, only thing is, is the effective range for the larger rounds increases from the 50m of the 9mm?

Offline Morpheus32

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2004, 12:08:55 »
Those C7s/C8s look pretty kick ***, and the C9 too, i wonder how much of an acuracy drop there is with the shorter barrel? I am excited by the different calibers of simunition, makes for better training, only thing is, is the effective range for the larger rounds increases from the 50m of the 9mm?

Reference barrel length, there is not necessarily a corelation between barrel length and accuracy.   A shorter barrel is not necessarily less accurate than a longer barrel...what is effected is the velocity of the projectile as it leaves the barrel.   A good rule of thumb for the C7/AR15/M16 is 50 ft per second per inch.   Your mileage may vary.  So if a barrel was 20 inches and the bullet left at 3100 feet per second, you could expect a 200 ft per second loss in velocity in a 16 inch barrel.   With a carbine of 14.5 and 10.25 inches in length, you can expect the bullet to leave the barrel at 2825 ft per sec and 2612 ft per second respectively.   The problem is not one of accuracy but terminal ballistics.....but that is another discussion unto itself.  

So in other words, there is no loss of accuracy with a shorter barrel, just velocity loss.   The trajectory will change and because of the lower muzzle velocity the bullet will begin dropping sooner than one leaving at a higher velocity but it will still be as accurate.   If anything in ballistic theory a shorter barrel is more stiff and therefore should perform more accurately....but there is more to accuracy than barrel length.

In terms of performance of the shorter barrels, they are being examined for personal defence weapon.   Considering the problems of introducing a new weapon system into the CF, a similar platform would ease the training bill considerably.   Unfortunately the short barrel have issues with terminal ballistics using standard ammo.   It is generally accepted that our FMJ performs best in terms of terminal ballistics above 2700 ft per second.   Below 2700 ft per second, terminal performance begins to degrade.   So the shorter the barrel, the more problematic terminal performance becomes.   You will note in our calculations above that the bullet is leaving the barrel below the ideal 2700 ft per second line.   Some of this can be addressed by a heavier bullet load such as a 77 gr projectile vs the current 62gr.   Much research is ongoing into this both in Canada and the US.  We could have an entire thread just discussing terminal ballistics.

So in summary.   No impact on accuracy necessarily.   Definite impact on terminal ballistics or in layman terms...what happens when the bullet hits its target.

Jeff
« Last Edit: October 18, 2004, 12:15:47 by Morpheus32 »

Offline Rounder

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2004, 15:11:02 »
Quote
Rounder give your head a shake.   With personal gear maybe.  Overall not even close.


     Hey... in the reserves personal gear is all we get. Oh... and maybe an Iltis.
If you're on time... you're already 10 minutes late.

Who owns the Chiefs?

Offline KevinB

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2004, 16:19:21 »
C7CT, AR10T and The TAC50 - all CF sniper weapons are supressed.

We dont call the SFW the SFW (for whatever reason) we call it the C8A2 or C8HB - depending upon who you draw it from - we did not subscribe to the KAC RAS either
My SFW versus a C8A1



16" versus 14.5" bbl (for terminal affectiveness - the velocity issue Jeff touched on the 4" drop from the C7 to C8SFW is the same as the drop from the SFW to the 14.5" C8 bbl aprox 150fps for both)

C9A2 - I'll dig through my pics and get a good intheatre shot.

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Offline KevinB

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2004, 16:27:50 »


Better one of the C7CT


Dave and I hamming it for the camera


A bunch of us doing a "Hero Shot"

like my VLTOR shirt?

Kevin S. Boland
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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2004, 16:54:12 »
What sight is that in your first pic?  Issued?
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
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Offline KevinB

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2004, 19:33:59 »
Aimpoint M2 CCO - My issued EOTECH got recalled  ::) seems some officer though he needed it more than I - so I raided my buddies C8 while he was on HLTA (it is MY Aimpoint).

Kevin S. Boland
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Offline J. Gayson

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2004, 22:47:27 »
I haven't read all the thread here so I apologize if it was mentioned.

Reference the shorter C9 barrel.  I read somewhere, I think here but I will look for the source, that the shorter barrel is a FIBUA barrel.  This barrel was made shorter so that the machinegunner use the C9 more easily in confined spaces.  It is also important to note that C9 gunners will as a result be carrying 3 barrels instead of 2 (2x normal barrel and the 1 Fibua barrel). 

[Edit]

I found that source, it was posted here some months ago.  I remembered it a little incorrectly as it says a gunner would be issued 2 short barrels instead of one.  Anyways here is that source, though I don't think it is as reliable as I remembered it to be. . .

(3)     Barrel.  New short barrels have to be
procured with a collapsible carrying handle.  The short barrel will be for
specific ops such as parachuting, FIBUA, and fighting in complex terrain
versus a full-length barrel (466mm).  It is envisioned that each C9A2 gunner
will be issued two short and two long barrels and use depending on the
mission in conjunction with an integral Backup Iron Sight.


http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,16430.msg73555.html#msg73555



« Last Edit: October 18, 2004, 23:02:51 by J. Gayson »

Offline KevinB

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2004, 07:31:15 »
Curently only one long and one short are issued.

However according to DLR there will be two of both with the folding handle.

Most users prefer the short bbl for all uses - and bullet drop is aprox 6" different at 500m when using short to long (not 6' like some are saying...)

Cheers
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Offline Proud Forester

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2004, 09:37:05 »
Is that a silencer on beside the C7CT??

Offline SEB123

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Re: Variant of C7A2, the Different Canadian Sniper Rifle and C9A2
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2004, 10:34:00 »
yes