Author Topic: Public Accounts & DND Losses: What MSM picks up on vs. what the docs show  (Read 9152 times)

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Offline milnews.ca

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Here's what one reporter picked out of the hundreds of pages of Public Accounts issued today by the GoC.
Quote
Missing: 3 PalmPilots and 42 military weapons and accessories
Provided by iPolitics Staff
Posted on Thu, Nov 3, 2011, 4:17 pm by Sonya Bell

The government’s tough-on-crime agenda still has a ways to go on the home front, according to the acts of theft and vandalism reported in the Public Accounts of Canada for 2010-11.

This fiscal year, at least $1.5 million of federal government goods – ranging from taxi vouchers, to safety glasses, to motor boats – have been stolen or vandalized. The exact amount is likely much greater than the official figure of $1.5 million, because an additional $150 million in losses, damages and fraud are classified as occurring either by accident, or by an illegal act.

The most costly crime was damage to RCMP buildings and property, with three incidents totalling $250,000. The smallest item to be stolen was a $10 handcuff key from the Canada Border Services Agency.

At National Defence, the theft of military kits, military specific equipment, and weapons and accessories totalled nearly $100,000 .... let’s really try to find those 42 stolen military weapons and accessories.
To give you the rest of the story, I've attached the section on losses dealing with DND - if you're REALLY interested in seeing the whole honkin' list of losses, you can download just that section here (28 pretty-small-print page PDF).
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Offline Wookilar

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$68K in fraudulent claims from CFB Halifax alone? What the hell happened there?

The numbers from VAC are also interesting. 7 cases of fraudulent claims = $743K, that's about 40% payments each (that's just an average, i know it's probably a range). Given the amount of money they give out in claims/year, that's actually quite a small number.

About our lists:
1) what's the difference between military kit and equipment, technical equipment and tools?
2) Big difference between a weapon or an accessory. I know it's all "part" of the weapon, however, reality is I am not so worried about 20 missing bayonets as I am 20 missing C-6's.
3) Where does this info come from? Is this our consolidated lists from the BOI's we don't call BOI's anymore on change of command?

Wook
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Offline milnews.ca

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.... 2) Big difference between a weapon or an accessory. I know it's all "part" of the weapon, however, reality is I am not so worried about 20 missing bayonets as I am 20 missing C-6's ....
This jumped out at me, too.

I'd be curious to hear from those knowing such things how these lists are compiled, too.
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Offline ModlrMike

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Between bayonets, mags, BFA, cleaning kits etc, etc, etc, it's easy to get to 42. I know that as the SM of a Coy in AFG I had to substantiate several loss reports for wpns "parts". I'm sure they showed up in the 2009 list.
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Offline garb811

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$68K in fraudulent claims from CFB Halifax alone? What the hell happened there?
Not having intimate knowledge, IR fraud is a big ticket item right now.  Someone gets picked up on an audit after a couple of years on IR, the numbers add up quick.
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Offline Greymatters

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Would anyone who understands accounting and/or fraud be able to explain what 'loss of accountable advances' means?   
(On page 4)

Edit - otherwise, an interesting doc, huge numbers when it comes to claims fraud...
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 19:02:35 by Greymatters »

Offline mariomike

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Would anyone who understands accounting and/or fraud be able to explain what 'loss of accountable advances' means?   
(On page 4)

I don't understand accounting, but this might help:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/Search/Search.aspx?txtS3archA11=accountable+advance&txtT1tl3=%22Accountable+Advances+Regulations%22&h1ts0n1y=0&ddC0nt3ntTyp3=Regulations

"Accountable Advances Regulations":
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-86-438/index.html

"An individual to whom an accountable advance is issued is personally responsible and accountable for that advance and any loss or shortage in respect of that advance may be recovered from that individual."

« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 19:14:06 by mariomike »

Offline Greymatters

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I don't understand accounting, but this might help:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/Search/Search.aspx?txtS3archA11=accountable+advance&txtT1tl3=%22Accountable+Advances+Regulations%22&h1ts0n1y=0&ddC0nt3ntTyp3=Regulations

"An individual to whom an accountable advance is issued is personally responsible and accountable for that advance and any loss or shortage in respect of that advance may be recovered from that individual."

Thanks mariomike, but not quite what I meant, I' ll try again:  I understand the description, but how was it 'lost'?  Are they talking about i.e., getting an advance prior to a deployment and then not deploying?  Sounds like more of a simple administrative/pay issue...   

 

Offline garb811

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It is probably more along the lines of someone taking an accountable advance for their position (ie. a RMS Clk taking a MTEC advance), then it either gets stolen, they screw up their accounting etc. etc.
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Offline Greymatters

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That would make more sense...

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Could also be in instances where a group travelling is issued a bulk claim. The bulk claim holder will have a substantial amount of money in his/her possession to issue to individuals in the group as required. If this were to become lost or "lost".............well....you know.......

Offline Greymatters

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Could also be in instances where a group travelling is issued a bulk claim. The bulk claim holder will have a substantial amount of money in his/her possession to issue to individuals in the group as required. If this were to become lost or "lost".............well....you know.......

That is a credible situation I can see happening...

Offline milnews.ca

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A bit more broad-strokes context here....
Quote
Fake overtime and expense claims, theft, fraud, vandalism and violent acts of nature add up to nearly $175 million dollars in unexpected losses from the federal government's coffers discovered in the last fiscal year, newly released accounting records have revealed.

The documents, tabled by the government last week in Parliament, reveal a pattern of losses in each government department ranging from stolen petty cash, taxi vouchers and security uniforms to BlackBerries and other government property.

In total, the federal government says it will lose about $1.29 million worth of public money and $1.39 million worth of government assets or property discovered missing in the last year due to illegal or suspicious activity. It is also writing off about $17.89 million in losses from the same year due to accidents or acts of nature such as storms.

But the records show that the government is recovering or expects to recover about 90 per cent of the $175 million in unexpected losses that were reported in the newly released records.

Accidents implicating government vehicles and lost equipment from a variety of government offices made up a substantial portion of losses that will not necessarily be recovered by the taxpayer.

Environment Canada, Human Resources and Skills Development and the RCMP were among the top government-funded organizations with multimillion-dollar losses ....
Postmedia News, 9 Nov 11
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