Author Topic: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada  (Read 49174 times)

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Offline Kalatzi

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Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« on: September 07, 2011, 16:26:18 »
Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
Prime minister says Conservatives will bring back controversial anti-terrorism laws
Link here http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/09/06/harper-911-terrorism-islamic-interview.html

E.R. Campbell made reference to this in another post.

I respectfully submit the the imploding global economy is much bigger problem.



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Offline Brihard

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 17:06:47 »
He's setting up to try to revive Bill C-17 form the last parliament, which is bloody bad law. More pandering to fear in ways that negatively impacts our freedoms. There's no demonstrable need for the provisions in question; traditional police and intelligence activities have thus far been extremely successful in protecting us from the rather vague threat of terrorism on our soil.

I'm not saying that terrorism presents no threat, but that we present at least as much threat to ourselves by suborning sound values and principles out of an amorphous fear. Destroying a few buildings or killing some people cannot in and of itself fundamentally alter the character of our society unless we allow it to.
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 18:18:31 »
In Canada, I see our counterterrorist activities more to prevent their planning and easy passage from Canada to the USA. We're trying to stop them from planning stuff here and executing it in the US.

Offline Redeye

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 19:27:24 »
Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
Prime minister says Conservatives will bring back controversial anti-terrorism laws
Link here http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/09/06/harper-911-terrorism-islamic-interview.html

E.R. Campbell made reference to this in another post.

I respectfully submit the the imploding global economy is much bigger problem.

I agree. I'd put the economy, and also environmental issues up there too - religious extremism is nowhere near the top of the list. I think the general public seems to think so too, I think it may be a gaffe.
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 19:43:31 »
Quote
I'd put the economy, and also environmental issues up there too - religious extremism is nowhere near the top of the list.

When Iran gets a bomb, and it goes off anywhere in Israel or the USA,  and it will, the economy will tank and the environment will be contaminated.
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Offline canada94

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 19:53:23 »
When Iran gets a bomb, and it goes off anywhere in Israel or the USA,  and it will, the economy will tank and the environment will be contaminated.

China has the bomb? The Soviets had the bomb? Why is it that now the "bomb" has so much more potential to be used?

I am not saying that a nuke is something to kid about, but the chances of Iran actually using it are slim to none. They are not stupid as you might believe. They know for a fact they would get wiped off the world map if they did.

I agree with the economy and spending more money then we have more of an issue as well.

Offline Redeye

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 19:58:53 »
When Iran gets a bomb, and it goes off anywhere in Israel or the USA,  and it will, the economy will tank and the environment will be contaminated.

I'm remarkably unconcerned about that ever actually happening.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 20:23:55 »
The reason no one is overly concerned with the nuclear capabilities of Russia, China (or France, for that matter) is these are relatively stable nation states run by a professional class of politicians and bureaucrats who have little to gain and everything to loose if nuclear weapons are used. Iran has not exactly demonstrated that to be the case, and their known use of non state actors like Hezbollah and Hamas as their military proxies implies that nuclear capabilities might not be under control of rational or accountable people.

WRT Islamicism, the greater threat is blocks of unassimilated people and groups in the body politic who largely ignore or reject "our" values. The Hell's Angels, Native Canadians, Quebec separatists, radical Greens and some Sikh congregations have demonstrated various levels of "rejection" past and present. If unassimilated groups actively oppose the values of a Liberal-Democratic state, then they are a true danger, and radical Islam has demonstrated an actively rejectionist stance.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 11:10:47 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline canada94

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 20:36:22 »
 ::) still does not change the fact Israel has 300 nukes. "Unstable", they have a lower homicide rate then we do? They may not be free, but calling Iran unstable to the point of losing control of its nuclear weapons is not plausible IMO.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 22:02:54 »
If any of the nations that has nuclear weapons reports one "missing" and it subsequently "goes off", there will be no rational excuse for a punitive response - after all, it went "missing".  The recipient will have to grin and bear it.  Alternately, steps can be taken to prevent such an occurrence.

A fact which receives too little attention is that the more advanced technologically we become, the more vulnerable we are and the more grave a disruption can be.  Next time you're in a high-rise with no power (lights, elevator, refrigerator, stove, perhaps no water pressure) or a major traffic jam, imagine if the disruption were extended (days or weeks instead of minutes or hours).

That aside, the real point of vulnerability is confidence and faith (ie. things we take for granted), not physical infrastructure.
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2011, 01:50:37 »
Quote from: Rifleman62 on Yesterday at 18:43:31
Quote

    When Iran gets a bomb, and it goes off anywhere in Israel or the USA,  and it will, the economy will tank and the environment will be contaminated.


Redeye:
Quote
I'm remarkably unconcerned about that ever actually happening.

And why am I not surprised of your view of Utopia.
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2011, 02:58:42 »
they have a lower homicide rate then we do?

Homicide is illegal killing. I am willing to bet if you applied our laws to the majority of killing in that country you would see a totally different picture. They are unstable, and if you want to live under a rock, and ignore all the rhetoric and threats made by the Iranian regime then have fun. The rest of us don't want to keep our heads buried in the sand.
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Offline lethalLemon

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2011, 07:10:25 »
Homicide is illegal killing. I am willing to bet if you applied our laws to the majority of killing in that country you would see a totally different picture. They are unstable, and if you want to live under a rock, and ignore all the rhetoric and threats made by the Iranian regime then have fun. The rest of us don't want to keep our heads buried in the sand.

Well said.

I don't believe these old and re-proposed laws are unnecessary or even harsh. 3 days sitting in a cell so that police can make sure that the 800 pounds of fertilizer you just bought for dirt cheap isn't being used to make bombs and you're not a threat to innocent people is well worth it. People have to keep in mind, ARRESTS do not go on your record and go against you, only OFFENSES IN WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN CONVICTED (charges of anywhere from assault, murder, to pissing in public haha) are placed on your record and go against you. After all, these laws are NOT just applied to those of Islam, they're applied to EVERYONE. Therefore not only are we protecting our nation against immigrants who for some reason want to hate our country and the way it's run because it's not like where they came from, but we're also protecting our nation against homegrown terror like the bombings and shootings that occurred in Norway - by Norwegians.

I've noticed that CBC gets more and more biased, yes Harper my say "Islamicism.. blah blah blah..." but is that really all he said? It could have just been one line, he could have said "Islamicism... blah blah blah... and along with... blah blah blah" but we will never know because CBC always wants to paint Harper as a horrible person and a criminal. It's disgusting.

Israel and a lot of those nations around there actually have Honour Killings as legal homicide. That's why it seems they have a lower homicide rate (although, I don't know much about how Israel runs so they may have more civilized laws, maybe, but... I might still be in line), but like Sythen said, if it were to occur here, (or even there) with or laws applied, the murder rate would sky rocket (or you can just go to Coquitlam which currently holds Canada's highest murder rate at 365% higher than the nation average).

However, I will conclude: I still think they should be more focused on the economy and healthcare etc. as previously stated - more prominent issues to the everyday Canadian, however, if this is what's on their mind at this time - can we really stop them?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 08:33:32 by lethalLemon »
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 08:26:30 »
Iran's rhetoric is primarily for domestic consumption, in the style of most tyrannical strongmen, Ahmadinejad blusters on at length but the likelihood of them actually using nuclear weapons against Israel or anyone else is remarkably small, because he's smart enough to know the consequences. Is it potentially a problem or threat that bears some watching? Yes. Is it a significant threat to Canadians? No, not really. By and large, Canadians, and rightly so, are more concerned about the economy, about the environment, about our health care system and how it will react to aging boomers, etc, than it is (or should be) about Iran.
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 08:33:26 »
Well said.

I don't believe these old and re-proposed laws are unnecessary or even harsh. 3 days sitting in a cell so that police can make sure that the 800 pounds of fertilizer you just bought for dirt cheap isn't being used to make bombs and you're not a threat to innocent people is well worth it. People have to keep in mind, ARRESTS do not go on your record and go against you, only OFFENSES IN WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN CONVICTED (charges of anywhere from assault, murder, to pissing in public haha) are placed on your record and go against you. After all, these laws are NOT just applied to those of Islam, they're applied to EVERYONE. Therefore not only are we protecting our nation against immigrants who for some reason want to hate our country and the way it's run because it's not like where they came from, but we're also protecting our nation against homegrown terror like the bombings and shootings that occurred in Norway - by Norwegians.

So you'll tolerate an attack on basic ideas of liberty? "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Frankin

The idea of starting to trample on basic individual liberties in response to a vague threat is something that should be a national conversation.  I bet sitting in jail sounds alright as long as it's not you.

I've noticed that CBC gets more and more biased, yes Harper my say "Islamicism.. blah blah blah..." but is that really all he said? It could have just been one line, he could have said "Islamicism... blah blah blah... and along with... blah blah blah" but we will never know because CBC always wants to paint Harper as a horrible person and a criminal. It's disgusting.

 :facepalm:

More "OMG the CBC hates Harper" poutrage. As I understand it, it was a long, pretty continuous interview, not a bunch of cropped shots allowing for clever editing. Mr. Harper did also talk about other issues, but the statement about "Islamicism" stood out.

Israel and a lot of those nations around there actually have Honour Killings as legal homicide. That's why it seems they have a lower homicide rate (although, I don't know much about how Israel runs so they may have more civilized laws, maybe, but... I might still be in line), but like Sythen said, if it were to occur here, (or even there) with or laws applied, the murder rate would sky rocket (or you can just go to Coquitlam which currently holds Canada's highest murder rate at 365% higher than the nation average).

Can we shorten this paragraph to "I have no idea what I'm talking about" or delete it altogether? Since you admit you don't know about how Israel runs (or that "honor killings" aren't legal there and never have been), maybe it'd be better if you just stay in your lane. Israel, apart from its appalling treatment of its Palestinian "neighbours", is a pretty civilized, moden democracy with laws generally like you'd find in Western countries.
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 08:39:17 »
Iran's rhetoric is primarily for domestic consumption

How willfully blind must people be? So UN speeches are for domestic consumption too? Every chance this guy gets he talks about destroying the USA and Israel in a wave of fire. People these days are so afraid of doing something beyond posting a facebook status that they are willing to let harm befall them and others.

Quote
Is it potentially a problem or threat that bears some watching? Yes. Is it a significant threat to Canadians? No, not really.

Wonder how many people said that when Al Qaeda declared war on the US back in the 90's? Yea just ignore the problem, it will go away.. Bin Laden is just giving rhetoric for domestic consumption, he's smart enough to know the USA would kill him if he did anything, right?

Unfortunately, people like you all you do is watch and wait.. Then when crap hits the fan, you will complain about how the CIA knew and did nothing, etc etc.. So tired of it...
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 08:43:27 »
Quote
maybe it'd be better if you just stay in your lane. Israel, apart from its appalling treatment of its Palestinian "neighbours", is a pretty civilized, moden democracy with laws generally like you'd find in Western countries.

I think you should take your own advice. The fact Israel hasn't wiped out the Palestinian people is beyond restraint. I am not advocating them to do so or anything, but Palestinian people inside Israel have more rights then Palestinians inside Libya or Syria or Iran. Please do some fact checking. I know if my neighbor constantly attacked me, and everyone without any real insight said I was doing all sorts of horrible things to them, I would just start doing those things.
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 08:46:23 »
How willfully blind must people be? So UN speeches are for domestic consumption too? Every chance this guy gets he talks about destroying the USA and Israel in a wave of fire. People these days are so afraid of doing something beyond posting a facebook status that they are willing to let harm befall them and others.

Yep. Understand that a tyrant must take steps to maintain his legitimacy against domestic enemies first and foremost. Look at any tyrant in history, and you'll see the same pattern. They pick an enemy they shape into an existential threat (the USA and Israel serve Iran's purposes well for this) and they bluster on and on about them - as in, "Look what I'm protecting you from."  As a state actor, he knows Iran cannot really do anything significant without receiving massive, decisive retaliation against the entire population. He can, however, fight proxy wars against Israel, which we all know he does by propping up Syria and arming Hezbollah, and will keep doing so at least until a two-state solution is settled there. I have my doubts that will solve much long term, though, sadly.

Wonder how many people said that when Al Qaeda declared war on the US back in the 90's? Yea just ignore the problem, it will go away.. Bin Laden is just giving rhetoric for domestic consumption, he's smart enough to know the USA would kill him if he did anything, right?

The problem posed by Al Qaeda is different. They're a non-state actor. They don't have territory that can be easily threatened like Iran does. They don't have cities that could basically be levelled by retaliatory strikes, making them a much more insidious enemy.

Unfortunately, people like you all you do is watch and wait.. Then when crap hits the fan, you will complain about how the CIA knew and did nothing, etc etc.. So tired of it...

Any more incorrect generalizations you wanted to throw out there? Go ahead!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 10:13:17 by Redeye »
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2011, 08:51:26 »
I think you should take your own advice. The fact Israel hasn't wiped out the Palestinian people is beyond restraint. I am not advocating them to do so or anything, but Palestinian people inside Israel have more rights then Palestinians inside Libya or Syria or Iran. Please do some fact checking. I know if my neighbor constantly attacked me, and everyone without any real insight said I was doing all sorts of horrible things to them, I would just start doing those things.

Palestinians inside Libya, or Syria, or Iran? What?!

What kills me about Israel is that they essentially turned the Gaza Strip and West Bank into giant prisons, keep the Palestianians from being able to exercise any sort of democratic rights (unless, of course, Israel approves), and have essentially strangled any hope for economic development in them. Until they stop doing that, and accept a two-state solution (which, incidentally, a good chunk of Israelis understand is the only way forward), they're not going to get peace.  And they're going to keep pissing off the world as they use things like collective punishment to deal with what happens as a result of the way they treat the Palestinians. Given the history which led to the creation of the State of Israel, arguably the most disastrous foreign policy decision in history, the irony of their use of such tactics is rich indeed. Fortunately, I think most people who live there are decent people, and I'm hoping that when Netanyahu is gone they might elect someone a little more reasonable and start actually working toward a solution.
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2011, 08:55:08 »

The problem posed by Al Qaeda is different. They're a non-state actor. They don't have territory that can be easily threatened like Iran does. They don't have cities that could basically be levelled by retaliatory strikes, making them a much more insidious enemy.

And in your diluted mind, when Iran finally does do something, you will come up with 100 ways to say the same thing.. oh it was different because blah blah blah.. Before 9/11, you would have been saying the same thing about a preemptive strike against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Its amazing the mental gymnastics some people can do all to preserve their notion of everything is good in the world, except Steven Harper. He is all that is bad, right? Him at that Tea Party...

Quote
So you'll tolerate an attack on basic ideas of liberty? "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Frankin

The idea of starting to trample on basic individual liberties in response to a vague threat is something that should be a national conversation.  I bet sitting in jail sounds alright as long as it's not you.

Forgot to reply to this little gem. If the world was only so simple to make your little fantasy a reality, I would grow long hair, smoke weed and sing kumbaya..  I love when people misuse this quote. Tell this quote to the victims in NY and Washington.. or Madrid or London.. Tell them that they died so that shady characters making shady purchases can avoid being questioned about it.
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2011, 08:57:24 »
Palestinians inside Libya, or Syria, or Iran? What?!

What kills me about Israel is that they essentially turned the Gaza Strip and West Bank into giant prisons, keep the Palestianians from being able to exercise any sort of democratic rights (unless, of course, Israel approves), and have essentially strangled any hope for economic development in them. Until they stop doing that, and accept a two-state solution (which, incidentally, a good chunk of Israelis understand is the only way forward), they're not going to get peace.  And they're going to keep pissing off the world as they use things like collective punishment to deal with what happens as a result of the way they treat the Palestinians. Given the history which led to the creation of the State of Israel, arguably the most disastrous foreign policy decision in history, the irony of their use of such tactics is rich indeed. Fortunately, I think most people who live there are decent people, and I'm hoping that when Netanyahu is gone they might elect someone a little more reasonable and start actually working toward a solution.

And I am done. Please come out of your cave and join the rest of the world. I will end by giving you a video to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdH0XxDEjG4
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Offline Sythen

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 09:00:11 »
Palestinians inside Libya, or Syria, or Iran? What?!


I will correct myself, I meant Lebanon not Libya
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 09:17:16 »
Israel (the Zionists, first) has been negotiating, in one form or another, with the Arabs for 110 years - ever since the Jewish National Fund was established to buy Arab land for Jewish farms. The negotiations have borne some, but little, fruit. One problem is that a large, influential and increasingly powerful segment of the Arabs regards the existence of a Jewish state, actually any non-Islamic state, in the region as an abomination. For this group the only acceptable outcome is the dissolution of Israel as an entity. Jews are 'welcome,' after a fashion, to stay on as second class citizens (see your own favourite definition of "dhimmitude"). There are, I think limits to how much Israel must 'give' for whatever the Arabs will call peace.

That aside, Israel's response to attacks from Gaza and the West Bank is debatable in technique and it appears to be ineffective.

(I, personally, were I an Israeli, would advocate for a bigger, better fence - encompassing some of the settlements - leaving the others to their (sad) fate - that would totally isolate the West Bank and Gaza. No Palestinian who was not a citizen of Israel would be allowed to enter Israel, for any reason, under any circumstances. Attacks from the West Bank and Gaza would be countered with massive, bloody and totally indiscriminate reprisal attacks - one missile would net a return of 100 or so; repeat as necessary. I do not believe that the Arabs will ever reconcile themselves to a Jewish state in the "ummah" so why bother trying? Lock them out - if they don't want peace then blow therm away.)

But, eventually, I believe that the Arabs will prevail. I do not think that Israel is strategically defensible - not even with nukes. I do not believe that America can or will defend Israel and I do not think that Israel can, time after time, every single time, defeat all its Arab neighbours and, as Israelis know, Israel must win every time; the Arabs just need to get lucky once.
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2011, 09:26:57 »
And in your diluted mind, when Iran finally does do something, you will come up with 100 ways to say the same thing.. oh it was different because blah blah blah.. Before 9/11, you would have been saying the same thing about a preemptive strike against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Its amazing the mental gymnastics some people can do all to preserve their notion of everything is good in the world, except Steven Harper. He is all that is bad, right? Him at that Tea Party...

Except I didn't. I had no problem with going after Al Qaeda long before in Sudan and Afghanistan. Nor do I have a particular problem with Stephen Harper. I voted for his party the first couple of times, after all.


Forgot to reply to this little gem. If the world was only so simple to make your little fantasy a reality, I would grow long hair, smoke weed and sing kumbaya..  I love when people misuse this quote. Tell this quote to the victims in NY and Washington.. or Madrid or London.. Tell them that they died so that shady characters making shady purchases can avoid being questioned about it.

The quote isn't misused. There must be, in a free society, some semblance of balance. When we start using a threat which is still remote at the end of the day to start justifying a massive curtailing of basic civil liberties, there's a very serious problem. Frankly, the odds of being killed by lightning, a road traffic accident, medical malpractice, and various other things are substantially higher than the odds of being killed in a terrorist attack, so you'll have to forgive me for thinking that the use of fearmongering to impugne personal liberties is largely a problem.

One of the most remarkable things about the recent attack in Norway is that the King and Government basically stated that they won't let that one horrible event change the way they live, won't let it threaten their democracy or their liberties. That's a brave statement, and I was glad to hear it.
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Offline lethalLemon

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Re: Harper says 'Islamicism' biggest threat to Canada
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2011, 09:35:34 »
So you'll tolerate an attack on basic ideas of liberty? "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Frankin

The idea of starting to trample on basic individual liberties in response to a vague threat is something that should be a national conversation.  I bet sitting in jail sounds alright as long as it's not you.

 :facepalm:

More "OMG the CBC hates Harper" poutrage. As I understand it, it was a long, pretty continuous interview, not a bunch of cropped shots allowing for clever editing. Mr. Harper did also talk about other issues, but the statement about "Islamicism" stood out.

Can we shorten this paragraph to "I have no idea what I'm talking about" or delete it altogether? Since you admit you don't know about how Israel runs (or that "honor killings" aren't legal there and never have been), maybe it'd be better if you just stay in your lane. Israel, apart from its appalling treatment of its Palestinian "neighbours", is a pretty civilized, moden democracy with laws generally like you'd find in Western countries.

1) Did I ever say it would be okay if it wasn't me? No, I did not. However, if I were ever to be arrested under these laws under suspicion of terrorism, I would cooperate because I know: 1) I'll never partake in such acts 2) I have no reason to not cooperate as it's for the collection protection of the nation. If that's what the law states, well, then it shall be done. I'd rather sit in a prison cell for 3 days and be told "Everything is okay, you can go home" than to have a bomb go off, killing my friends and family, or some crazed utopian freak like you, go gun down a bunch of children at a Summer Camp. If that's what you truly believe, then why not just invite the Taliban, or Hamas or Hezbollah or al-Qaeda into our country with open arms, treat them as every other immigrant/landed immigrant/permanent resident/and eventually citizen, and see what happens. Those f*ckers don't scare me because I know my government will protect me. That's what they're there for. Need we to remember the October Crisis? That is your classic example of Homegrown terrorism.

2) Okay, so the Islamicism statement stood out, but why should it stand out? Why can't those other issues stand out too? This is what I'm talking about, they don't report on the whole picture and just take one statement and paint him a bad man. I never said they are "Anti-Harper" or ALWAYS painting him as a bad man... it just seems IMHO that they do it FAR too often.

3) Whoa whoa whoa, cool your jets... That's why I said, I DON'T KNOW. I know that honour killings aren't legal in Israel, but I don't know how the rest of the country works... That's ALSO why I said that OTHER NATIONS in that area, have it legalized due to Sharia Law etc. It would really help if you didn't take things so personally, and read posts in their entirety before lunging at people.

EDIT: All in all, I don't want these laws to pass, from the deepest depths of my heart and mind - truly, madly, deeply, I do not. I want the them to focus on more pressing issues like the unemployment rates and stupid housing costs (economy) and healthcare. Am I not allowed to engage in discussion? I engage in discussions like these to learn not to be flamed and yelled at by people like you just because I said something you don't like.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 09:51:10 by lethalLemon »
Pain is temporary. Pride is eternal.