Author Topic: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI  (Read 16316 times)

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Offline jcl

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Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« on: January 13, 2011, 22:31:03 »
Good day,

I'm a Pre service fire grad with lots of training under my belt currently working in the safety and training industry.

I recently was charged with an over 80mg charge, but will be going to trial in hopes of beating this charge.

I have an interest in joining the CF for Firefighting, military police or medical officer if possible.

Would a pending DUI prevent me from joining?

Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 22:44:29 by jcl »

Offline Container

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 22:39:37 »
You have to be free of legal obligations as far as I have been informed. DUI= legal obligation.

Also- I would be surprised if you are competitive for the military police after your problem. It doesnt preclude you but it makes you less desirable.

Unless youre convicted....
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline TK-421

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 22:40:16 »

And for the people who want to play god and bash me, save your typing skills and write a book.

That's a fantastic way to end a post....why not wait and see what others have to say before going straight on the defensive?


Offline Container

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2011, 22:43:26 »
That's a fantastic way to end a post....why not wait and see what others have to say before going straight on the defensive?

Thats because deep down inside he already knows the answer.
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline jcl

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2011, 22:46:38 »
That's a fantastic way to end a post....why not wait and see what others have to say before going straight on the defensive?

I ended without that, but being on forums in the past, I figured id add that.

But you are right, i haven't been on these forums and I may be suprised with the replies I  receive.

 I appreciate your input.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 22:49:26 by jcl »

Offline jcl

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2011, 22:50:38 »
You have to be free of legal obligations as far as I have been informed. DUI= legal obligation.

Also- I would be surprised if you are competitive for the military police after your problem. It doesnt preclude you but it makes you less desirable.

Unless youre convicted....

Makes sense, I'll visit a recruiter and see what they have to say.

Thanks

Offline greentoblue

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2011, 22:52:04 »
The Cdn military is not the French Foreign Legion and the days when judges gave the option between jail or the Army ended long ago.  You must be free of all legal obligations prior to joining the military.  You can still apply but your application really won't go anywhere until the legal process is completed.  That obligation applies to those charged criminally as well as anyone going through divorce, been ordered to testify, fighting an insurance settlement, etc.  If you do not disclose your legal status and you do get enrolled but get caught later you will be charged for an improper enrolment (more legal troubles) and released as you have committed an act of fraud against the Crown.

Offline TK-421

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 22:52:29 »
I ended without that, but being on forums and always reading someone playing high and mighty I just put it.

But you are right, i haven't been on these forums and I may be suprised with the replies i will receive.

But I appreciate your input.

No problem!

Enjoy the forums, there's alot of great information and great people on hear to learn from.

Offline jcl

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 22:55:12 »
The Cdn military is not the French Foreign Legion and the days when judges gave the option between jail or the Army ended long ago.  You must be free of all legal obligations prior to joining the military.  You can still apply but your application really won't go anywhere until the legal process is completed.  That obligation applies to those charged criminally as well as anyone going through divorce, been ordered to testify, fighting an insurance settlement, etc.  If you do not disclose your legal status and you do get enrolled but get caught later you will be charged for an improper enrolment (more legal troubles) and released as you have committed an act of fraud against the Crown.

Well I definately won't be doing that, nor do I have nothing to hide.

Thank you.

Offline jcl

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 22:56:39 »
No problem!

Enjoy the forums, there's alot of great information and great people on hear to learn from.

Thanks, I  didn't mean to come off as defensive.


Offline jcl

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 23:00:38 »
Well I definately won't be doing that, nor do I have nothing to hide.

Thank you.

Lets say my legal issues are complete, and say I was convicted of a dui charge.  Would I be elgible to join the military and persue a university career?

Offline MCG

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 23:02:02 »
Would a pending DUI prevent me from joining?
Just based on what we do with serving personnel that are convicted of driving under the influence, I would expect that, should you be convicted, the CF would not consider your file for at least one year after the conviction.

Offline jcl

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2011, 23:08:34 »
Just based on what we do with serving personnel that are convicted of driving under the influence, I would expect that, should you be convicted, the CF would not consider your file for at least one year after the conviction.

doh!

Offline ArmyDoc

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2011, 23:13:55 »
Lets say my legal issues are complete, and say I was convicted of a dui charge.  Would I be elgible to join the military and persue a university career?
The CF policy towards DUI has recently taken a much harder line in terms of consequences, although I don't have the DAOD or CANFORGEN in front of me.   Essentially, for serving members who are charged with alcohol-related offences your file is sent up the food chain to Ottawa for a review by Director Military Careers.  With a existing DUI conviction I suspect your chances of entry are slim, but the only way to find out is to check with the recruiters.  I have the new policy in my office, so I'll try to get the reference today.

Offline greentoblue

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2011, 23:19:44 »
Lets say my legal issues are complete, and say I was convicted of a dui charge.  Would I be elgible to join the military and persue a university career?

Okay this is a hypothetical situation so giving a straight answer is impossible.  You have to talk to your recruiter as they will have access to all the latest Recruiting Group directives and can consult the specialist Personnel Selection Officers and Career Counsellors.  I can say that Recruiting Group directives can and do change.  However, your best bet is that you have a good lawyer to represent you to defeat the charge as well as staying away from the booze or putting yourself in a position to be compromised.  Believe me, we're not saints but we do expect people trying to join us to maintain a certain standard of conduct.  In fact on-and-off duty conduct is an assessment factor right on the annual performance review.

Also, if university education is what you want, you need to work on your spelling ie "elgible" and "persue."  From personal experience I can tell you that there is no mercy for an officer or officer wannabe with poor English skills.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 23:23:29 by greentoblue »

Offline jcl

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2011, 23:21:39 »
The CF policy towards DUI has recently taken a much harder line in terms of consequences, although I don't have the DAOD or CANFORGEN in front of me.   Essentially, for serving members who are charged with alcohol-related offences your file is sent up the food chain to Ottawa for a review by Director Military Careers.  With a existing DUI conviction I suspect your chances of entry are slim, but the only way to find out is to check with the recruiters.  I have the new policy in my office, so I'll try to get the reference today.

I expect as much, sucks to hear but that's reality.

Thanks man.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2011, 08:16:50 »
Also, if university education is what you want, you need to work on your spelling ie "elgible" and "persue."  From personal experience I can tell you that there is no mercy for an officer or officer wannabe with poor English skills.

 ;D

That should include "double negatives".  I found this amusing:

Well I definately won't be doing that, nor do I have nothing to hide.

Thank you.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2011, 21:12:56 »
I'll be perfectly blunt, and this isn't to 'bash' you, this is to situate you properly. The CF is not a dumping ground for those lacking the judgment to make it in other careers.

As a matter of policy, all legal obligations must be discharged before your application will go anywhere. This will likely include sentencing conditions such as any period of probation. If you 'beat' the charge as you put it, the CF cannot discriminate against you in terms of employment, though it's possible that it may still affect your application for MP. The MPs are, after all, a police force. You must prove yourself to be possessed of the maturity and judgement to be entrusted with the role they fill even here at home.

If you are convicted, then you are a convicted criminal and will have a substantially harder time getting into the C.F. MP is out, as is undoubtedly medical officer. The recruiting for Med O is a different thing altogether anyway, but I cannot conceive of the C.F. taking someone who's just gotten a DUI and paying their way through med school. Firefighter is also very hard to get into directly, most (if not all) people getting in are transfers form other trades. I do not imagine you would be competitive with no military experience and a recent criminal conviction.

Past whatever mandated waiting period there is post conviction you will still, with a criminal record, be competing for any job with those without one. The C.F. attracts a lot of recruits, and the doors aren't exactly open these days.  Put it this way: if a civilian police force, firefighting organization, or medical school wouldn't take you under these conditions, why should the military?

That's not to say you will not be successful in getting into the CF at all, but you've named three trades that range from somewhat to extremely ambitious. Check with the recruiters, but also realize that your judgment will be distrusted for quite some time to come. I would hope, frankly, that with our recruiting intake being as limited as it is that you would not be considered competitive for several years at least. Play it straight and prove to the military that you deserve a spot. If convicted, you'll be starting with a hell of a disadvantage.
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Offline pontcanna

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2011, 17:47:47 »
If convicted, my best guess would be that the sentence would have to be satisfied and a pardon granted. How long that takes depends on whether Crown proceeds with the charge as a summary or indictable offence (impaired/.08 is a hybrid offence, I believe). Pardon can be granted after 5 years for an indictable conviction and 3 years for summary conviction.

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2011, 23:34:04 »
Good luck and I sincerely hope you walk away with a conditional or suspended sentence.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 11:03:23 by jcan »

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2011, 23:37:46 »
a large donation to a charity in the judges name. It happens all the time!!

That sounds awfully close to the line of what a bribe is... that judge will get tax credit for the donation, effectively giving him/her money.

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2011, 23:40:12 »
Ahh....legal advice from random anonymous strangers on the internet.

Always reliable of course.........

 ::)

Offline Container

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2011, 00:00:00 »
nevermind. What an officer you'll make- suggesting people misrepresent themselves to the court and drag their feet and burden the system.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 00:10:50 by Container »
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2011, 10:02:08 »
nevermind. What an officer you'll make- suggesting people misrepresent themselves to the court and drag their feet and burden the system.
Well, to be fair to the officers, although Jaycan's profile claims he's a Naval Cadet, his posts say he hasn't even done his CFAT yet. There's a history of misrepresentation.

Of course, he did show up with a masters degree, stating that the Recruiter's "eyes light up when she saw that. I felt from that moment on she was catering to me" -- I've no doubt that Recruiters have multiple orgasms when such unabashed awesomeness walks in; probably no misrepresentation there.   ;)
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Offline martr

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2011, 10:47:55 »
That sounds awfully close to the line of what a bribe is... that judge will get tax credit for the donation, effectively giving him/her money.

I was thinking the same thing; isn't that a bribe?

A large donation under your own name, sure.. but under the name of the person deciding your fate in an effort to get a better (for you) decision?

For fun, I looked into the definition of bribery:
Bribery, a form of corruption, is an act implying money or gift given that alters the behavior of the recipient.