Author Topic: Every westerner should see this  (Read 13928 times)

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Offline Red Hackle

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Every westerner should see this
« on: April 08, 2009, 16:55:59 »

This may be an eye opener for some but this is what we are up against fanning the flames in the middle east.

http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=0861ff3eabea1ceb73e4

Offline mediocre1

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 17:07:32 »
This may be an eye opener for some but this is what we are up against fanning the flames in the middle east.

http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=0861ff3eabea1ceb73e4

The man is truly the ideal and true embodiment of EVIL. Just cannot believe that there are  people like that. Because of what I saw, Sir Red Hackle, I am determined to sacrifice my life if necessary in the fight against terrorism. That is crazy!

Offline benny88

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 17:08:41 »
   The scariest part is not what he's saying, we've heard all that before, it's that he's not saying it from a bunker behind a mask. He's in what appears to be some sort of reputable press conference speaking to what sounds to be a large crowd. 
   I doubt this video will come as a shock to anyone on this site, but it's an interesting watch.


Edit:
Quote
I doubt this video will come as a shock to anyone on this site

I stand corrected:
The man is truly the ideal and true embodiment of EVIL. Just cannot believe that there are  people like that. Because of what I saw, Sir Red Hackle, I am determined to sacrifice my life if necessary in the fight against terrorism. That is crazy!
The people trying to make this world worse, are not taking a day off.

Offline BravoCharlie

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 17:09:33 »
Ideas like this are why I chose to be a member
All fires have to burn alive.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 17:26:30 »
I see referrals to this video in the blogosphere, but has anyone found any clear evidence that the closed captioning is correct and accurate?




Offline BravoCharlie

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 17:32:18 »
I thought the same thing Michael.
That would be a tragedy if so,
Some one out there is thinking this way
All fires have to burn alive.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 17:34:11 »

And it would be equally wrong to foster hatred based on this video if it is not, in fact, accurate.

Offline Fiver

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 17:38:13 »
Well, the translation was made by MEMRI, and there's a lot of controversy about this "research institute"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute
Quote
The accuracy of MEMRI's translations is sometimes disputed,[15] as in the case of MEMRI's translation of a 2004 Osama bin Laden video, which MEMRI defended.[32][33][10][27][34] Norman Finkelstein, in an interview with the Muslim newspaper In Focus said MEMRI "uses the same sort of propaganda techniques as the Nazis... t’s a reliable assumption that anything MEMRI translates from the Middle East is going to be unreliable."[22]

Where the excerpt came from: http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD224709

Also, the video was mostly spread through die-hard Christan blogs, advocating that we, well, for example:
Quote
The comments of this kuwaiti professor is not surprising as it is totally compatible with the filthy bloody teachings of the filthy prophet of islam who did nothing but kill, pillage, loot and sleep with women. This professor's hatred of the West is typical of the islamic bloody mind. This professor doesn't know the One true God of the Universe Our Lord and God Jesus Christ and his protection of his children everywhere and that he is the One who will use the filthy schemes of muslims to bring islam and its darkness down once and for all.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 17:45:02 by Fiver »
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.

Offline Red Hackle

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 17:38:45 »

There has been over 800,000 people that have seen it, sounds like from some of comments that they speak Arabic, I'm sure they would correct any errors in the translation.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 17:45:37 »
And the likelihood that their comments would be allowed to remain on tangle.com is?

http://www.tangle.com/support/aboutus

Quote
tangle is the new name of GodTube, our video-file sharing company.


tangle is a social networking site that allows GodTube to expand its vision to reach more people with the ability to connect, share and grow online. It's a place where, in addition to sharing videos, our users can connect and share their faith and lives with others through photos, audio messages, blogs, prayers, music, causes and so much more.

Social networking sites do not always ensure credibility with their offerings.

Offline mediocre1

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2009, 17:46:52 »
There has been over 800,000 people that have seen it, sounds like from some of comments that they speak Arabic, I'm sure they would correct any errors in the translation.

If it was allegedly bogus then I stand to be corrected.

Offline logairoff

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2009, 17:51:23 »
I just finished watching that and I can confirm that the translation is accurate.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2009, 17:57:42 »
I just finished watching that and I can confirm that the translation is accurate.

Thank you.  It is interesting that a Google search of the title doesn't turn up any sites other than blogs pointing at tangle.com.

Has anyone seen other sources for this?  Or any analysis commentaries from credible sources?

Offline logairoff

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2009, 18:00:28 »
Everyone watching this video just keep in mind that fanatics exist in every society and they all have followers. Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone who is arabic or is muslim has the same beliefs as this fanatic.

Offline Teflon

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2009, 18:07:11 »
Everyone watching this video just keep in mind that fanatics exist in every society and they all have followers. Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone who is arabic or is muslim has the same beliefs as this fanatic.

For sure, one just has to look at our own society here in the west, white supremacists, christen fanatics etc. fanatics exist in MANY flavours!
When you meet somebody new,
don't get excited, because
9 out of ten times
they're stupid

Offline Fiver

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2009, 18:09:26 »
Heh, about the guy in question:

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Alnafisi_Abdulla_101260580.aspx
Quote
Abdulla F. Alnafisi of Kuwait (b. 1945). In 1961 received his G.C.E. from Victoria College in Cairo, Egypt and later, received his B.A. in Politics from the American University in Beirut in 1967. Dr. Alnafisi continued on in this field and received his Ph.D. in Politics in 1972 from Cambridge University, UK, Churchill College. At one point he served as a member of the Parliament of Kuwait, and from 1972-78 he acted as chairman of the Department of Politics at the University of Kuwait. Currently Dr. Alnafisi serves as a professor at the University of Kuwait.

http://www.tsrn.us/blog/2009/03/20/following-memri-tv-clip-arab-liberals-denounce-kuwaiti-islamist-abdallah-al-nafisi/
Quote
In a March 3, 2009 article in the Elaph e-journal, Jordanian-American liberal author Shaker Al-Nabulsi wrote: “… The aim of this article is not to reproach or condemn the Kuwaiti political scientist ‘Abdallah Al-Nafisi. It is simply an attempt to analyze the importance and danger of his political discourse, much of which is a call to the culture of terrorism, glorifies terrorism, encourages terrorism, and says that it is necessary to carry out terrorism. This has made him a new, Kuwaiti, Bin Laden.

“The importance and danger of ‘Abdallah ‘bin Laden’ Al-Nafisi lies in the fact that he is the greatest media propagandist for terrorism in the Arab world. He wraps his terrorist speeches in a layer of buffoonery, joking, and laughter, which makes them enter more easily into the heart and mind of the listener. He travels freely in the Arab world, and speaks freely and with great audacity.

http://brianakira.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/al-jazeera-kuwaiti-prof-praisesuggests-bio-attack-on-white-house-prays-for-bombing-of-us-nuclear-plant/
Quote
In Kuwait, Dr Al-Nafisi is considered moderate and somewhat liberal.
Dr Al-Nafisi is a long-time supporter of and theorist for The Muslim Brotherhood. [Khalil Al-anani, "The Brotherhood and the Gaza Crisis", 2009.01.31]
Dr Al-Nafisi in 2002: “It is hard to distinguish between what is American and what is Zionist”.
In 2006, Dr Al-Nafisi, speaking about Iranian plans for Iraq, warned of the danger of Shi’ism, a nightmare for the people of the Arabian Peninsula. On Al-Jazeera he stated that “We [Sunni Arabs] are now surrounded by a dreadful and unprecedented danger.” He emphasized the Iranian threat from the East and West (via Syria), and the Al-Hooti threat from the South (Saada, Yemen).

He doesn't represent the general view of the population, he's trying to convince them of his views. Many Arab journalists have been asking for the US and the Kuwait governments to arrest him.
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.

Offline Monsoon

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2009, 18:11:41 »
I'm suspicious of the cuts in this video. I don't doubt that the speaker is a hard-liner who hates the west and encourages people to fight the coalition in Afghanistan, but that bit about the anthrax was cut off quickly. I kind of get the impression that he was saying that Al-Qaeda "could" have used anthrax or another WMD to attack the US and chose not to.

The laughter at the mention of 9-11 was also... odd. If this is a group of people who support bad things for the west, why laugh at what they should regard as a victory? He used the word "conspiracy" to describe it, and then later was talking about how white supremacist militias were going to attack the US from the inside and how they should pray that Allah supports them - but he doesn't go as far as to say that the people in the room should attack the US at home, only that they should resist them in the Middle East.

So here's my read of what he's saying: he believes 9-11 was a "conspiracy" organized by the west to use as a pretext to attack Muslims in the Middle East. The thinks that Al-Qaeda had the means to carry off a much worse attack using WMDs like anthrax, but chose not to attack the US because they are "freedom fighters" and not inclined to kill innocent civilians. He thinks that western society is fundamentally corrupt and will be taken down by radical groups from within. He encourages everyone to resist the westerners in the Middle East.

This is all (especially that conspiracy theory stuff) nothing new in Islamist circles. Definitely ugly, deluded and hateful - but I don't think he's advocating or giving people a recipe to kill 330,000 Americans using anthrax. Though maybe I just don't like to believe that anyone could warm to that thought.

Offline logairoff

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2009, 18:16:19 »
His name is "Abdallah Fahd Abd Al Aziz Al Nafisi" do a quick google search.

the cuts in this video I can say were done without a doubt to appeal to a Western audiences. He talks about the KKK and white supremicist groups but they cut that out. The person doing the editing wanted to capture the things that would interest a western audience. Nothing is wrong with that. I can confirm that this person has a deep hate for the west. you can tell even by his tone. I dont think anything was taken out of context. He babbles a lot so some of the editing was necessary.

The laughter at the 9/11 remark was actually because of an interesting difference in the translation. He said that the 4lbs suitcase is like "salad" compared to 9/11, referring to how easy it would be. In arabic that was a joke which was why you heard the laughter. It wasn't because of 9/11. He definitely is encouraging people to do harm to the US. If not in the anthrax remark than in the KKK and white supremicist remark where he says that they are trying to do harm to Americans, and wishes them luck.

I am not encouraging people to hate but I am trying to make sure that people like this are not able to hide behind translations. I will not defend this guy. He's slime! the things he says and advocates are despicable.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 18:27:39 by logairoff »

Offline JBG

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2009, 23:02:52 »
   The scariest part is not what he's saying, we've heard all that before, it's that he's not saying it from a bunker behind a mask. He's in what appears to be some sort of reputable press conference speaking to what sounds to be a large crowd. 
   I doubt this video will come as a shock to anyone on this site, but it's an interesting watch.


Edit:
I stand corrected:
They say "you love life we love death". Let's give them what they love. In spades.
If it's us or them, I choose us.

Offline WB

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2009, 23:57:50 »
I'm about halfway through The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright and I believe that so far it's helped me to put at least some of this video in context.  I am by no means an expert on this stuff, but I will throw this point out there to stimulate discussion. logairoff, I'm looking in your direction...

One thing that stick out in my mind:

-The notion of Takfir, or the declaring of those who consider themselves Muslims as non-believers and legitimate targets. At around 6:18 Dr Al-Nafisi declares that in the Koran Allah has dictated that Jews are the eternal enemy and anyone who would negotiate with them is therefore an infidel. I think it demonstrates that with these fanatics you are either with them or against them.  Even good Muslims can be declared takfir if they even suggest that peacefull negotiations can take place.

Am I using the term correctly? In the way that Islamic fundamentalists use it? How is Takfir described in "Western Islam"?

Offline mediocre1

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2009, 07:21:52 »
For sure, one just has to look at our own society here in the west, white supremacists, christen fanatics etc. fanatics exist in MANY flavours!

The democratic West countries are governed by laws that debar these abominations. We have laws that  cover discrimination whether they be religious or race. Consider the laws that the Taliban has imposed. They're not only barbaric. They're crazy. It would be good to pay lip service to America for having been governed by reasonable laws.

Offline Red Hackle

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2009, 07:43:15 »
The big problem is that we hear that not all Muslims think this way. I understand, but we are not hearing from the moderates , they are too intimidated and content to just keep quiet . I'm sorry but the moderates are a huge part of the problem. They have to grow some and put it on the line. If they don't, this is going to get out of control. We have certainly done our part as a Country, the ball is in the moderates court. To boil it down... if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem and when you say this out comes the racists card.

No more excuses please.

Hamas is already in Mexico ( I have that on good authority ) right now they are in the beginnings of supply drugs to the Mexican gangs, hence part of the gang wars down there . This being phase one, once they have raised enough funds they will send in Mexican runners with dirty bombs . The FBI is very concerned.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 08:09:47 by Red Hackle »

Offline mediocre1

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2009, 08:05:32 »
For sure, one just has to look at our own society here in the west, white supremacists, christen fanatics etc. fanatics exist in MANY flavours!


The Taliban's code of conduct: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a  tooth. You don't find this  kind of conduct among Israel's and American's legal system.

Online E.R. Campbell

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2009, 08:31:29 »

The Taliban's code of conduct: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a  tooth. You don't find this  kind of conduct among Israel's and American's legal system.


Oh, for all the gods’ sakes! Of course you do! Old Testament, retributive justice is the very solid bed upon which our whole legal system rests.

As too “moderate Muslims” who should speak up – where are the “moderate” Christians when the fanatical, fundamentalists fringes of their coreligionists take to the airwaves and streets screaming and slobbering their intolerance? Ditto the moderate Hindus and moderate Sikhs and so on; where are they? Why is it just Muslims who must speak out against their own people?

Islam is not – or, if we want to win this war, ought not to be – our enemy. It (Islam) is in urgent need of a reformation (to separate it from its crude, medieval Arab/Persian roots) and an enlightenment, too, for large parts of the Muslim world, but we do not need to make it our enemy. We have enough real enemies without creating new, unnecessary ones.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline TimBit

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Re: Every westerner should see this
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2009, 08:35:22 »

The Taliban's code of conduct: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a  tooth. You don't find this  kind of conduct among Israel's and American's legal system.

hem... ever heard of Death penalty? How's that for an eye for an eye & al. Mind you, it is  a post by mediocre 1.