Author Topic: The Ghosts of Medak  (Read 14732 times)

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Offline Infidel-6

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2004, 01:33:13 »
She seems to ignore Mac in this one...

  It makes for a good book - fairly accurate from what I heard from those who were with the second at the time.
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Offline Trust No One

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2004, 09:21:48 »
Getting the C in C 10 years after the fact may seem a little late, though WW1 battle honours were not awareded untill 1931 and the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal for Korea was issued in 1991. Maybe everything is relative.

in the min-1990's the common feeling among job hunting (ex) soldiers that it was better in an interview to say that you spent the last (x) number of years doing drugs than admit to service time. 

All in all 10 years is a good reunion time.  Even if anyone had thought of it earlier, from a public recognition standpoint it was better to wait untill the public was ready for it.  Now we get the added bonus of slagging the government for taking 10 years.  That is having your cake and eating it too.

No one was is Croatia for the Gong, CPSM, or C in C.  Maybe the work or the money, but not the tin.

There is only one principle of war and that's this. Hit the other fellow, as quickly as you can, as hard as you can, where it hurts him most, when he ain't lookin'.
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Offline Kurt Grant

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2005, 09:33:36 »
Chris Wattie of the National Post (and a serving Reserve Officer with the GGHG in Toronto) did a review of the book.  Unfortunately, Mrs Off did not fair well in the review.  To quote Chris "What makes Ghosts of Medak ultimately unsatisfying is that Off has written nearly 300 pages on one of the most dramatic incidents in modern Canadian history and managed to make it boring."

Attached is a copy of the review.

kurt
Author "All Tigers No Donkeys"


In 1993, 600 Canadian soldiers -- half of them reservists -- fought a battle in a desolate corner of the former Yugoslavia. Outnumbered and, outgunned by their Croatian foes, they nonetheless fought them to a standstill and forced them to retreat.  In the process, they helped uncover evidence of ethnic cleansing by Croatian forces who were determined to evict ethnic Serbs before the Canadians could
enforce a shaky UN peace agreement.

The story of their battle, and the physical and mental scars that plagued the soldiers for years after, went largely unreported in Canada. Government and senior military officers, distracted by the Somalia scandal of the same year, did little to put out the story of the largest military action by Canadian troops since the Korean War and the troops returned home to little fanfare or recognition.

Eleven years later, along comes journalist Carol Off with The Ghosts of Medak Pocket: The Story of Canada's Secret War, a book that purports to be the never-before-told story of how Lieutenant-Colonel Jim Calvin and the soldiers of 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry fought and suffered.

Well, not exactly.

For a secret war, Medak Pocket has been awfully conspicuous over the past eight years. And Off was far from the first one to let the "secret" out of the bag. In fact, the battle has been in the media since at least 1996 -- three years after Lt.-Col. Calvin's patchwork battalion fought off the Croatians in the
UN's Sector South.

The Ottawa Citizen's a journalist first told the story in a lengthy article which featured interviews with Lt.-Col. Calvin and most of the same soldiers that Off features in Ghosts of Medak. The article was picked up by Canadian Press and reprinted in newspapers across the country. The Toronto Star ran it on their front page.

Global TV and CTV did stories on Medak in the wake of a journalist's article and Scott Taylor, the publisher of the military magazine Esprit de Corps, wrote about it in his gadfly publication and later -- in 1998 -- devoted an entire chapter of his book, Tested Mettle, to the battle, as well as the persistent health problems suffered by the soldiers who served in the nightmarish Croatian battlefield.

In 2002, Dr. Sean Maloney and John Llambias published Chances for Peace: Canadian Soldiers in the Balkans, which exhaustively chronicled Medak, using the soldiers' own words, and remains the definitive published work on the battle.

Some secret. Yet all of this previous work on Medak is given only a passing reference by Off, and in the case of Taylor, a dismissive reference.

Still, for some Canadians, the story Off lays out in Ghosts of Medak is not a familiar one -- which should be as much a national disgrace as the shameful treatment of the veterans of the battle by the government in the years after their return -- and there is a need for a book on Medak that appeals to a broad audience.

In Ghosts, Off covers the events leading up the battle, setting the context with a brief summary of the bewilderingly byzantine history of the Balkans, and she does a reasonable job of laying out the diplomatic wheeling and dealing into which the Canadian troops were thrust in the summer of 1993.

But her description of the action itself, drawn from interviews with many of the soldiers involved, is confused and sketchy. Granted, the situation was "fluid" -- military parlance for chaotic -- but the book gives the reader little help in keeping the main players and significant troop movements straight. A few judiciously placed maps would have done wonders.

But they would not have helped overcome Off's flat prose, which manages to deflate the dramatic impact of the events she describes. A point-blank firefight involving one platoon of soldiers reads like a baseball game covered by a bored sportswriter, and the troops who should be the heart of her story never come to life for the reader as the book skips erratically from one character to another and from incident to incident.

The best passages in the book are those where Off lets the soldiers tell their own stories, including their descriptions of the horrific evidence of ethnic cleansing which Lt.-Col. Calvin and his soldiers found after
forcing the Croatians out of the Medak Pocket.

The last third of the book is the most disappointing, as Off attempts to chronicle the years of sychological and physical problems the troops faced after their return home. She seems determined to prove that the government conspired to hide evidence of the battle from the public, but comes up with no proof. Her contention that senior military officers and a Liberal government with little love for the Canadian Forces co-operated to cover up evidence of a battle that was politically inconvenient may well be true, as other military analysts have claimed, but there is nothing new in Off's discussion of the issue and no solid evidence to support her thesis.

In fact, while the military was probably happy to let the battle slip beneath the media's radar, at least one of the public affairs officers quoted in Ghosts of Medak informed me recently that they had plenty of
co-conspirators in the media. Military spokesmen on the ground in Croatia in 1993 were practically begging Canadian reporters to come see what the troops were going through, but got no takers. Government officials and generals, it seems, were not the only ones preoccupied with the Somalia scandal.

Most of Off's lengthy discussion of the health problems faced by the Croatian veterans -- including the sad and bizarre tale of Warrant Officer Matthew Stopford who was poisoned by his own troops -- amounts to little more than an inelegant synopsis of media reports and the transcript of an official military inquiry into the matter.

What makes Ghosts of Medak ultimately unsatisfying is that Off has written nearly 300 pages on one of the most dramatic incidents in modern Canadian history and managed to make it boring.

© National Post 2004


Offline Cataract Kid

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2005, 23:27:23 »
All in all 10 years is a good reunion time.


Ill say!, heh our JR's (The Patricia Arms Club) Had the single most profit in one day since its inception! :o and that was back in 1972 some time.
Quote
No one was is Croatia for the Gong, CPSM, or C in C.   Maybe the work or the money, but not the tin.


Damn Straight.

jmackenzie_15

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2005, 23:50:07 »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: pbi on October 23, 2004, 09:51:19
Ok, thanks. Anybody on this board who was at Medak, or knows someone who was? Cheers


I know one, but he's never talked about it  ???
There were alot of reservists on that tour it seems?

Offline 2023

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2005, 06:40:07 »
Hi All,

You have to remember the saying "Never judge a book by its cover" on this one. I almost didn't buy it because of the cover.........the person on the front has a BFA on the rifle!!!!!!!!!! First impression was that this book would be a waste of money.........what made me buy it however was that I have a lot of friends who were over there........

It was a good read for me and I did enjoy it.
"Even if you control the physical, you do not control the man. If you control his mind.........then you have him."

Offline noneck

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2005, 18:54:25 »
Mike you have pointed something out that was conveyed in very specific terms to Carol Off's publisher. Several of my friends and I wrote the publisher (I believe it was Random House) and stated that it was a complete disgrace to all that  served in the  2VP Battlegroup to feature an American soldier in MOPP gear on the front cover. The publisher did write back and apologised profusely , promising that future copies would be changed.

"Chances for Peace" is also a very good book, I would reccommend it to all CF members who served in the Balkans. As it provides accounts from throughout the conflict from CF members of all ranks and trades. It was also the first time that I could actually visualize C-Coy positions during the firefight as the authors Maloney and Llambias provided maps.

Cheers
Noneck

Offline Lazy E

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2005, 21:31:01 »
I was with the Engineer Troop attached to 2PPCLI in the Medak Pocket. I participated in the search teams through the villages and recovered bodies from the mountains. The memories and stench of the Medak Pocket will last forever.

Chimo :cdn:
Always good to hear from old buddies, drop me a line anytime. I am out in May and off to Police College with the OPP. I will be working out of the Prescott detachment and living in Kemptville ON. CHIMO!

Offline Mark Antony

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2005, 12:53:36 »
I was with D Coy in Medak.   I finished the book last week.
While I do agree that Carol Off's portrayal has been rather emotionless with some disjointed organization, I'm quite happy with what she has done(although the lack of maps is almost inexcusable in order to properly set the stage to describe the story).
I found Tested Mettle by Scott Taylor to be a well worded work of fiction.   Ms Off, while having a few glaring time/place errors has done quite a good job at describing things.   She keeps it pretty factual rather than emotional.   I've actually read about a couple of buddies I haven't seen since pretraining in Winnipeg and I've wonder what happened to them after.   Bear in mind that this tour was one of the most significant incidents in many of these men's lives (as it was in mine and continues to be almost daily).   Ms Off only gives a small amount of words about the Maslenica Bridge mission but it was pretty much as significant as Medak was with the extremely harsh conditions (Sector south as a whole was) and the amount of fire the Coy took in those areas (Of course realizing the book is really about Medak).

One major point is for the people that were affected by it.   I've heard stories through the grapevine of the various effects on the people I knew there (including the leadership).   One thing is plain from my own experiences after the tour.   It is that here is no help from our government.   Unless you are imminently dangerous to yourself or others, there is no recourse to any strife each person may be dealing with emotionally.   Only the support of buddies and family are left for them.   For those of use who have been able to work through it, its probably the best way, but shame on our gov't for not doing more.   I still don't think they do enough.

Offline Only One Left

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2005, 17:28:50 »
I was in 10Pl.  I managed to drag myself down to the PSP for help with PTSD 10 years after the fact and those turds gave me the cold shoulder.  I had to go to the VA for any help.  Stupid thing is I'm still in.

Offline Larry Strong

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2005, 19:21:06 »
Just a couple of small nitpicky points, otherwise I found it well written. I was on Roto1.

Camp Polum she states was between Pacrac and Lipik, it was just outside Daruvar, and Lilpik was on the otherside of Pacrac

She also says that the Dragovic Rd linked Pacrac and Lipik, when it actually went East of Pacrac to the town of Dragovic, hence the name.

The last one she states "....they couldn't go to the local bars and cafe's (if such things existed)..." Well I have to say that my liver would argue that fact, as the local economy was quite robust when we were there. In fact there was a Pizza joint just outside of camp, who finally started making a semi respectable pizza.
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Offline Slim

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2005, 23:30:22 »
I have purchased and read the book, which I enjoyed immensly.

My hat is off to all of you who served there!

Slim
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Edmond Burke

Offline GerryCan

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2005, 15:28:01 »
I needed a new book for the flights over to Afghanistan and finally decided to buy The Ghosts of Medak Pocket after cheaping out for quite some time.

I ended up finishing it along the way in no time and pretty much didn't put it down. The funny thing is, I met a guy on the plane that was also on his way to the Stan who was in 2 VP in the time. So after i was done with the book i gave him a barrage of questions about the book, some which I thought needed a little clarification. He too had started to read the book but put it down out of boredom, can't blame him I guess, but I thought it was an excellent book. It revealed a lot i didn't know, and i think more soldiers should go out of their way to get their hands on this book and get a taste of what some of our troops have been through recently...it makes a tour in Afghanistan look like a walk in the park, literally.

Great book, and i may even pick up some of Carol Off's other books in the future.

Cheers
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Offline MdB

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2005, 14:23:29 »
First of all, I have to say that this book is very instructive on a hidden, shadowed part of our Canadian (military?) history. It's a beautiful tribute to what little good have been done there and efforts of our soldiers. All that due to extensive research done by Off. Research that are impressive given the broad range of facts mentionned, the history of this part of the world and link with Canada; all that put a context around the political and military events described in the book.

The first chapter is rather misleading though. It opens with soldiers under shell fire. That's how we make contact with PPCLI soldier's deployed in Croatia. We come to understand that's this event will be described later, because after introducing some key 'characters', she comes back in time and show the history of preparation of this mix of units forming the battalion deployed. Then, she follow this preparation up to the deployment in the north and west part of Croatia. Then, she tells us about the history of Former Yugoslavia (including Croatia) and the links with Canada's Croats expats community. After that, we really dive in the story of the UN mission. Troughout this I always thought that the 18-hour firefight would be a climax in the book. Books like We Were Soldiers... and Young or that kind of military history piece book use that process: telling a bit of an event, go back in time, come back to the event. So this is why I found that rather misleading in that she passes over it in a couple of paragraphs and then we go on with the Croat-Serb ceasefire and the first time the CF soldiers enter the Croat-held area. It's about the 2/3 of the book at that time and I was really wondering what so important was to come after that and taking that long. It was the returning.

Not that the coming home wasn't important, but, to me, the climax was behind. Still, this part touched me really deeply. As a future CF member, I read and learned the bad side of NDHQ and the CF in the '90s. You have to be strong to still believe in the CF after what is reported in this book. I don't exactly know how it is now in the CF, but I know that pre- and post-deployment medical tests are conducted, that now that NDHQ and CF have been obliged to publicly recognize their responsability and that by putting the focus on the soldier, maybe the bean counter bureaucrat point of view have been reduced if not eliminated. It's full of doubts and hopes that I came out of this book and look foward to join the CF. I hope to be part of it and change it, in my own way, by bringing the best of me.

I dearly hope it becomes a mandatory reading (in the Army reading list) and, even though it's heart shattering, that people will acknowledge and remember this dark part of the canadian military history.
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Offline Mark Antony

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Re: The Ghosts of Medak
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2005, 23:22:04 »
Interesting viewpoint MdB and very valid in a storytelling context.   I also agree that she did a phenomenal amount of research.  She very clearly described the history of the conflict and how it started with an eye to having lay-persons understand.

From my perspective though I agree with the way she told the story though.  It was very important to tell the story of the firefight, but that surely isn't the end.  What was equally important (and possibly the crux of the entire story) was how the lives of everyone were affected afterward and how policies were changed to deal with it.  While seeming anticlimactic, I see the benefits to how she organized things.

Cheers,