Author Topic: Canadian Forces Pay Scale  (Read 266549 times)

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Offline chk2fung

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Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« on: April 08, 2004, 18:51:00 »
Hi

I was wondering about the Canadian Forces pay scale.  Not that it really bothere me, cause I think there‘s no better job then the CF.  All I know about the pay scale is moving down and to the right is GOOD!!!

I was told pay depends on education adn time in.  is this correct?  I‘m not exactly sure how they fit you in each pay category and I‘m not talking about specialist stuff, like combat diving, jump pay, EOD etc.  For example if you have a master‘s degree or a doctorate what category would you fit under.  Similarly if you‘ve been in for 20 years and you‘re a Warrant what would yo be in the same pay scale as a Warrant that‘s been in for 25 years.  If you hold a professional designation like a CA or P.Eng. do they consider that in your pay.  For example lawyers, doctors, pilots get paid more.  Lawyers, doctors, chaplains are commissioned captains. why is that?  Engineers and medical officers get signing bonuses is this merely because there are a lack of them.  Are there signing bonuses for NCM trades?
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Offline gryphon664

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2004, 18:53:00 »
Yeah.. comms.. i think that if your already a qualified sig op, then they give you a 40 000$ bonus..

maybe someone can confirm this tho
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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2004, 20:25:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by chk2fung:
[qb] Hi

I was wondering about the Canadian Forces pay scale.  Not that it really bothere me, cause I think there‘s no better job then the CF.  All I know about the pay scale is moving down and to the right is GOOD!!!

I was told pay depends on education adn time in.  is this correct?  I‘m not exactly sure how they fit you in each pay category and I‘m not talking about specialist stuff, like combat diving, jump pay, EOD etc.  For example if you have a master‘s degree or a doctorate what category would you fit under.  Similarly if you‘ve been in for 20 years and you‘re a Warrant what would yo be in the same pay scale as a Warrant that‘s been in for 25 years.  If you hold a professional designation like a CA or P.Eng. do they consider that in your pay.  For example lawyers, doctors, pilots get paid more.  Lawyers, doctors, chaplains are commissioned captains. why is that?  Engineers and medical officers get signing bonuses is this merely because there are a lack of them.  Are there signing bonuses for NCM trades? [/qb]
That‘s correct, moving to the right and down is good. If you are an untrained recruit(ie. you aren‘t trained in your specific trade), you will start as a private. They make just over 2,000 a month(about 26,000 a year), before taxes and get a pay increase every year on the anniversary of their enlistment date. Then after 4 years(sometimes 3) you will be automatically be promoted to Corporal, which has a starting pay around 40,000 a year and a pay topping out at just under 48,000 a year. From there, you have to earn all your promotions from there. Every year you will be evaluated by your superiors and then from a pool of all the people in your trade, they will make a merit list. So when someone retires, the first person on the list will be promoted, when another person  retires, the second person on the merit list will be promoted. You get the picture. Every year the merit list is redone to reflect the past year. Specialist pay is for some select trades(ie. Technicians) and they get a couple hundred extra a month just for being in the trade. On top of that the combat pay, jump pay, hazard pay, etc. is paid to all those who qualify.

If you have a Master‘s or Doctorate degree you would most likely go in as an Officer. Starting off as a 2Lt. then being automatically promoted to Lt. after a couple years and then Captain after that. Captain‘s make around 80,000 a year. Not bad. From there they can be promoted every few years to Maj., Lt-Col, Col, etc. just like NCM. Like NCM‘s, they are put to a merit board to decide who is most worthy of a promote.  

Your pay isn‘t really dictated by the time you have in. You get paid based on your rank and time in at that rank. When you get promoted there are 3-4 pay increases that you get automatically each year. So a Warrant Officer, would get a pay increase of 100-200/month for the first 3-4 years he/she was at that rank and then after that their pay would stay the same until they were promoted again and the cycle would repeat itself. By the way, I‘m not sure how much the increases are or how much WO‘s make, but it‘s around the 100-200 range.

If you had a degree like P.Eng, you probably wouldn‘t get any extra pay to the best of my knowledge. You would be enlisted as an officer probably and make the same as most other officer at your rank. Lawyers, Pilots, and Doctors are a whole other ball of wax. They get extra pay and signing bonuses because the CF is desperate for them and wants to retain them once they get them. That‘s why they make so much money, the CF is trying to compete with civilian companies for doctors, lawyers, and pilots and if they knew they could get more in the civilian world, they would jump at the chance(money makes the world go ‘round!)

There are sometimes signing bonuses for NCM‘s. Depends on your training, the need for new recruits in the trade, etc. If they are low on people and you are trained, you will probably get some sort of signing bonus.

Offline meni0n

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2004, 22:06:00 »
Basic captain pay is 60k a year and you‘ll have to earn all the ranks above captain just like you earn all the ranks above cpl.

Offline hoser

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2004, 00:26:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by gryphon664:
[qb] Yeah.. comms.. i think that if your already a qualified sig op, then they give you a 40 000$ bonus..

maybe someone can confirm this tho [/qb]
The $40,000 bonuses are for signal officers, and other engineering officers.  

Some NCM trades have either a $10k and $25k bonuses.

Offline doucet89

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 21:55:27 »
The CF is also currently very desperate for engineers as well

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2009, 21:59:47 »
The CF is also currently very desperate for engineers as well

You may want to qualify that a bit more. Combat engineers, structural, airfield, flight or P.Eng?

(Actually, it's likely all of them)
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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2009, 22:08:07 »
The CF is also currently very desperate for engineers as well

WTG 5yr old necro post.
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Offline Antoine

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2009, 00:54:05 »
Healthy companies are ready to put big money on the table to hire a qualify individual if needed. Nothing new. We call that salary negotiation as you all know.

A smart and talented young blood with or without an university degree will make good money by managing human knowledge or work force. If the CF is looking for this kind of guy, it is going to be difficult based on the CF pay scale.

For officers: Is young engineers, lawyers, scientists, accountants and etc... making 50 000$ and more? I don't think it is common outside dad's network or due to a specific need in the market. However, if you attract these young sharks by the money, well as soon as they have some professional experiences under their belts, if only money motivate them, they are going to learn salary negotiation and they might switch for the private sector quickly.

Medical doctors, dentist and nurses are in position to ask for good money because USA is next door and ready to give them a lot of money, because in Canada we are short of health care workers, because our population is getting older, because the type of personality we are recruiting (?) and many more reasons. Yup, you payed already a lot by your taxes for their education. But that is another topic.

Thus, by recruiting specific trades (others than the semiprivate one such as MD and nurses) only on the money, I think that it is a lost battle on the long run. In addition, I wonder how does CF members of other trades feel about it?

Honestly, the salary offered by the CF is not great for the level of commitment and responsibility that is expecting regardless of the trade. So probably many candidates join for other reason but I think the CF pay scale should be seriously increased for all trades.

I am not pretending anything original in my post, it is only my opinion and it has been said many times before me. I am not a human ressources expert, neither I have an MBA or other related qualification. So here I was throwing my  :2c: and some food for thought.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 00:56:57 by Antoine »
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Offline jp86

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2009, 11:42:36 »
However, if you attract these young sharks by the money, well as soon as they have some professional experiences under their belts, if only money motivate them, they are going to learn salary negotiation and they might switch for the private sector quickly.

People with extensive educational credentials - like doctors, dentists, nurses, engineers, etc. - may also have significant debt from student loans.  If you're paying $15,000 a year on your student loans, it's pretty hard to raise a family on a 2Lt's salary.

Offline Antoine

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2009, 15:23:16 »
I agree on the debt, but graduates with Master or PhD in Sciences and Arts might also carried huge debt.

In an ideal world, it might be better for example to higher the salary of all officer trades instead of giving bonus to some trades. If team spirit is critical, can it be weakened by money issues between people of same rank but different trades? Do you motivate some to join and stay but others to leave? I don't know the answer, it might have been studied by the CF.

If some one is working in human ressources, I'll be curious to know his/her advice on this.

Hire people for trade in demand only by money incentive may not attract candidates that are going to stay in the CF for too long. But yes, many trades and ranks should be better paid. And it still my  :2c:
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 20:36:09 »
While we're in the quoting necropost mojo...

Yeah.. comms.. i think that if your already a qualified sig op, then they give you a 40 000$ bonus..

maybe someone can confirm this tho

Signing bonus for qualified SigOps on component transfer is $20,000. $10,000 when you sign, and another $10,000 on the 1st anniversary of you signing (to prevent a big tax hit).

Offline skeadboy

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 14:16:37 »
is there a singing bonus for regulair forces???

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 14:21:40 »
Singing isn't allowed.

Skeadboy, welcome to army.ca. We highly encourage the use of proper writing skills as well as a little more "meat" to your questions. [ie. trade, your skillset, etc.]

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2009, 14:32:59 »
Actually, rumour has it the music branch may now recruit singers as well as musicians.  To my knowledge, though, there are no signing bonuses for singing.

However, some messes do have karaoke nights.
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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2009, 14:46:39 »
Actually, rumour has it the music branch may now recruit singers as well as musicians.  To my knowledge, though, there are no signing bonuses for singing.

However, some messes do have karaoke nights.

And Rock Band competitions!

...

As long as I don't get stuck on the drums.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2009, 14:50:58 »
 :rofl:

Oh, I needed that laugh.
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Offline TcDohl

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2009, 16:40:16 »
Also, I'm nose-deep in student debt, and the former bonus of $40k would greatly help. I've seen what student debts can do to someone (my sis pays $850/month, interest only), and I'm debating whether or not to delay my application a year so I'd get the bonus, so that's definitely a factor as well. I'm planning on staying with the Navy for something like 10 years anyway, so what's another year if I could squash my student loan problem within the first year or so of that time instead of paying off the student loan for all of those 10 years.

In this page
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/pr-sol/rfor-ofr-eng.asp
I'd like to be clarified what pay increment levels basic, 1-10 mean. How does one get paid more than a other people in the same entry plan and rank? I am confuse.

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2009, 16:49:22 »
In this page
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/pr-sol/rfor-ofr-eng.asp
I'd like to be clarified what pay increment levels basic, 1-10 mean. How does one get paid more than a other people in the same entry plan and rank? I am confuse.

Each increment is a year in rank.  First year:  Basic, second year:  Pay level 1 and so on.  If you get to the last increment of a pay level and are not promoted, you stay at the same pay level until you get promoted (or we get a raise economic adjustment).

Not sure what trade you're going for or why waiting a year would get you a signing bonus.  If it's not offered now, it may not be offered next year, either.  However, SISIP has some great loan plans at very low interest rates.
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Offline TcDohl

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2009, 16:54:31 »
Not sure what trade you're going for or why waiting a year would get you a signing bonus.  If it's not offered now, it may not be offered next year, either.  However, SISIP has some great loan plans at very low interest rates.

Engineering, either one of the Navy's engie MOCs. I have heard around here that it may come back in 2011. Logical, since that's about the time that the Navy gets their centennial monies.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2009, 17:07:01 »
Recruiting bonuses are offered when the CDS designates trades as sufficiently understrength that incentives are needed to close the gap.

"Centennial monies" have nothing to do with it - the Navy does not pay recruiting incentives fro mtheir funds; they come from central CF funds, managed by the Chief of Military Personnel.

Incentives will only come back if the occupational strength dips significantly below PML again.  Counting on that is a crapshoot.

Besides, delaying entry by antoher year will give you one less year of pensionable time (assuming you wish to serve a full career); one less year for promotion and thus more money, one less year for creidt for Sea Duty Allowance and Foregn Service Premium, one more year to accumulate interest on your loans...

In short, waiting a year has a large opportunity cost.  You have to make the choice, but be sure it's an informed one.
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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2009, 18:46:51 »
Recruiting bonuses are offered when the CDS designates trades as sufficiently understrength that incentives are needed to close the gap.

"Centennial monies" have nothing to do with it - the Navy does not pay recruiting incentives fro mtheir funds; they come from central CF funds, managed by the Chief of Military Personnel.

Incentives will only come back if the occupational strength dips significantly below PML again.  Counting on that is a crapshoot.

Besides, delaying entry by antoher year will give you one less year of pensionable time (assuming you wish to serve a full career); one less year for promotion and thus more money, one less year for creidt for Sea Duty Allowance and Foregn Service Premium, one more year to accumulate interest on your loans...

In short, waiting a year has a large opportunity cost.  You have to make the choice, but be sure it's an informed one.

Frankly, I don't see why, at the very least CSE shouldn't be getting said bonus. Last time I checked, we were the 3rd most understrength officer trade in the CF. And I don't think MSE is in the green either.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2009, 19:09:39 »
Frankly, I don't see why, at the very least CSE shouldn't be getting said bonus. Last time I checked, we were the 3rd most understrength officer trade in the CF. And I don't think MSE is in the green either.

Frankly, I don't see why I can't be a pilot, either.........but such is life.
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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2009, 19:10:52 »
Frankly, I don't see why I can't be a pilot, either.........but such is life.

Meh, I'm not complaining. I got the bonus.
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Offline Maelstrom

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Re: Canadian Forces Pay Scale
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2009, 19:29:43 »
I was looking at the pay scale shown on the recruiting web site, and it shows a Corporal earning more than a Lieutenant!  :o

It also shows an increase of 20k when going from Private to Corporal...
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