Author Topic: All things LASIK surgery (aircrew/other -- merged)  (Read 313901 times)

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ludacris

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All things LASIK surgery (aircrew/other -- merged)
« on: April 24, 2004, 18:00:00 »
I know this topics been touched upon a few times, but after getting laser eye surgery, does it restrict you from anything... does the canadian army approve of the procedure?

Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2004, 18:20:00 »
It would be the Air Force that contols that. Even though you are a griffon pilot, you still belong to the Air Force.
To add to the subject, does anyone know whether people with glasses can become pilots? Same thing with the eye surgury. Is it an approved procedure?
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Stephen

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2004, 18:39:00 »
No and no.  20/20 unassisted vision to become a pilot.  That means no surgery, no contacts, no glasses.

Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2004, 18:42:00 »
S***. stupid rules. Sure hope your wrong. How did you find out anyway? The online recruiting site was of no use. I expect that no one even awnsers the emails they recieve.
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Offline Tommy

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2004, 18:54:00 »
Sorry Monkey... but last i checked its true..

if you dont have perfect vision from the get go, then no pilot for ya. Im really sorry.
Tommy is retired now so he can say any opinion he darned well pleases so long as it stays within the forum guidelines :D

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2004, 18:57:00 »
The requirement for pilot training is "at least 20/20 vision uncorrected." Once trained some deterioration and correction by contacts or glasses may be within the existing restrictions.

 22 Questions with four Canadian CF-18 Pilots - see question #11)

 Prepare for Takeoff - (see page 4 for requirements)

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2004, 18:58:00 »
Go join the infantry.

Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2004, 19:13:00 »
So it has to perfect. Not just slightly corected? Like within the 2 accepable levels? Ever since my dad read me an article about the lack of CF-18 pilots, I have wanted to be a pilot. As for the infantry... right now, no. In a couple of years, I might reconsider, but it would take some coaxing. Hows the pay for an engineer?
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Offline combat_medic

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2004, 19:49:00 »
Several people have already told you. 20/20 uncorrected, unassisted vision. Absolutely NO glasses, no contacts, no laser eye surgery, nothing. Please listen to what people are telling you. There isn‘t leniency in this case, and several dozen people have already asked this question.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2004, 19:57:00 »
Join the infantry. You can fly helicoters and CF18s after you join. Its like a QL5 course or something.

Offline Allan Luomala

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2004, 20:12:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by Ghost778:
[qb] Join the infantry. You can fly helicoters and CF18s after you join. Its like a QL5 course or something. [/qb]
I know that sarcasm is difficult to detect in print, so I will assume that you are being sarcastic, based on your experience stated in your profile.

For the non-military types who might believe this, don‘t. Just because it‘s on the Internet doesn‘t make it true.

You can in practice become a pilot after joining, but you have to become an officer, and still undergo all the normal flight training that you would if you walked in off civvie street. There are more than a few programs that allow for this, but it won‘t happen until you‘ve been in for at least your first Basic Engagement (3 years), and then it‘s based on competition.

Anyway, hope that puts that tall tale to rest.

Allan

Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2004, 20:30:00 »
Thanks for the help guys. Now to plan B(pray that they change the no laser eye surgery rule).   ;)   But if they don‘t change the rule, Il‘l go through RMC and join an Engineering Corps. O well dreams are still dreams.
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2004, 09:03:00 »
Not entirely correct people...

To enter the CF as a pilot:

yes, you need 20/20 uncorrected, but the CF has leaned towards trained pilots getting laser eye surgery to maintain the "perfect vision".

But for Air crew (navigators, loadmasters, etc) You may get laser eye surgery to have what is called V1 or vision catagory 1 which is no less then 25/20 as you all would call it.

In the Army, the only vision catagory requirements above V3 are for Cbt divers which are a specialty of the Engineers. They have to be no less then V2(actually you can read for anyone that can become a ships diver, including medics). Also for interest of you wanna-bes, SAR Tech is a V2 as well because of thier diving/flying requirements.

Then if you are below spec, you may get the surgery if...

1. Granted permission from CO,
2. Go on 6 - 12 temp medical catagory,
3. Pay for it yourself..

Then you have to be cleared V2 or higher by Opthamoligist (if your paying $1500, your eyes better be V1).
"Return with your shield, or upon it."

ludacris

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2004, 11:53:00 »
yea no one answered about teh army, i dont care about the airforce, for the army, are you restricted wth having glasses or laser eye surgery to anything, ie, airborne or jtf-2 or infantry.

Offline ~RoKo~

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2004, 16:12:00 »
Ludacris, re-read ArmyMedic‘s post....

Basically for the army, you can have glasses and/or eye surgery.. If your eyes are really bad, however, you can be restricted from certain trades, if not the military in general.

Offline Shockwave

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2004, 16:56:00 »
I was very close to getting Laser Eye surgery about a year ago but decided to wait because the doctor told me I need to go throught at LEAST two months of little to no extreme physical activity because any sweat that enters they eyes will likley lead to infection.

buglog1

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Re: Laser eye surgery
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2004, 14:32:00 »
I find it suspect that a lot of the doctors performing these procedures seem to employ the use of glasses.  Hhhmmmmmmmmmmm....

  :p

Offline bossi

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laser eye surgery
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2002, 14:12:00 »
(I will believe it when I see it - no pun intended - up here in Canada.  I realised how cynical I‘ve become when I mused that DND will probably continue to drag its‘ feet with regard to approving laser eye surger ... probably because some penny-pincher is afraid that if they approve this procedure, then DND would have to pay for it!  Thus, it‘s in the bureaucrats‘ best interest to continue to stonewall, since really gung-ho individuals will/would continue to pay for it themselves - thereby saving DND a pretty penny ... which they‘ll need to pay for those two new executive jets for the Prime Minister ...).

Laser Surgery Battle-Worthy In Army‘s Eyes
Vision Treatment Shown To Give Soldiers an Edge

By Steve Vogel
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, April 1, 2002; Page A01

Army Sgt. Kevin Hayes lay flat on his back in a circular operating room at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, his right eye pried open directly beneath a laser.

"Acquired," a computer attached to the laser announced in a metallic voice, signaling that the machine was tracking Hayes‘s pupil.

A motorized instrument sliced an opening in Hayes‘s cornea. Lt. Col. Scot Bower, an Army surgeon, pressed a foot pedal, triggering a laser that delivered pulses to reshape the cornea to Hayes‘s prescription. Within minutes, Hayes, 24, was recuperating in a waiting area, slightly dazed behind protective eyeshades but no worse for the wear.

The Army is building itself a better soldier, one eye at a time.

After years of skepticism, the military is embracing laser eye surgery with enthusiasm, envisioning soldiers in Afghanistan and other hot spots who no longer have to worry about glasses fogging up or contacts popping out during combat. "It makes people into potentially better soldiers, better able to perform their duties," said Bower, director of refractive surgery at Walter Reed, in Northwest Washington.

"They‘re kind of tuned up, if you will," said Col. William P. Madigan Jr., assistant chief for ophthalmology at Walter Reed.

Just two years ago, anyone who had undergone such surgery would have been disqualified from active duty.

Now, laser eye surgery is not only allowed, but it is also actively promoted by the military. Today, Walter Reed is launching its Warfighter Refractive Eye Surgery Program. There and at other Army hospitals across the country, the surgeons expect to correct the vision of thousands of soldiers in coming years. The Air Force and Navy offer similar programs.

"There‘s a huge demand for the procedure -- probably more demand than we‘re going to be able to handle," Bower said.

The about-face came after a Department of Defense medical panel, after evaluating several years of research by the Navy, concluded that concerns about laser surgery damaging the structure of the eyes had not been borne out and that -- to the contrary -- the surgery was a way to improve the fighting forces. Congress subsequently approved $15 million for the program.

Officials are quick to point out that the laser surgery is strictly voluntary. "It‘s not a program to build an Uebermensch," Madigan said.

Nonetheless, many soldiers are encouraged by superiors to have the surgery. "Commanders are seeing the potential and wanting to have their troops treated," Bower said. "People are seeing it as combat readiness, enhancing the fighting force."

Eyeglasses have long been troublesome for soldiers, and modern warfare has made the problem worse. Increasingly, the military is employing sophisticated weapons and gadgets where glasses can get in the way. Soldiers who wear glasses need prescription inserts to wear gas masks. The same is true of goggles being developed to protect soldiers from enemy lasers.

"If your glasses steam up or fall off, you‘ve become a liability," Madigan said. "You‘re no longer part of the solution -- you‘re part of the problem."

In harsh environments where U.S. troops often are deployed, contact lenses can be even worse. Many soldiers who wore contact lenses during the Gulf War ended up ditching them and wearing glasses, Madigan said.

Laser eye surgery was approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 1995. Since then, more than 3 million Americans have had the surgery.

Bower estimated that the surgery he performed on Hayes‘s eyes would cost $2,700 to $4,500 in the civilian world.

The adverse effects reported by small percentages of patients -- including pain, glare, halos and vision left worse than it had been with glasses or contact lenses -- have not been common enough to stop performing the surgery, Army officials said.

Much of the military‘s earlier concern involved LASIK (Laser Assisted In-Situ Keratomileusis) surgery, which Hayes underwent. There were worries that the flap created in the cornea as part of the procedure might tear open in combat conditions.

As part of its review, the Army monitored how members of its elite combat force, the Rangers, fared in rugged training conditions after having the surgery. "They could jump out of planes at night, fight with pugil sticks, slog through the swamps for weeks and not have problems," Madigan said. "They reported that it gave them an edge. They didn‘t have to worry about fogging up their glasses or losing their [contact] lens."

Added Col. William Rimm, chief of ophthalmology services at Walter Reed, "We were criticized for being slow on the uptake, but we wanted some science to back it up."

The military remains reluctant about allowing LASIK surgery on aviators out of concern that high-speed ejections from aircraft could tear the flaps, officials said, and more research is being conducted.

The Army has established criteria for who should get the surgery first, according to Madigan. Top priority will be given to infantry and Special Forces, followed by others deemed likely to face combat, including armor, artillery and combat engineers -- "The people actually mixing it up," Madigan said. Within a unit, commanders may decide the priority, Madigan said.

The services estimate that 35 percent to 50 percent of service members need corrective lenses, but eligibility for laser surgery depends on the type of eye problem and other medical factors. Initially, officials predicted that perhaps 30 percent of eligible troops would opt for the procedure. But given its increasing popularity, the figure may be 70 percent to 80 percent, Rimm said.

Soldiers go through counseling before the treatment, and if a doctor senses uneasiness, the surgery is canceled, Madigan said. "The soldier always has the last say," he said.

Walter Reed‘s refractive surgery center has corrected the vision of nearly 200 service members since opening in January. Soldiers who have had the procedure have given it rave reviews.

"Being a person who‘s worn glasses since second grade, it‘s been a kick," said Marine Master Sgt. Bob Beyer of Woodbridge.

"It was 15 minutes, and I was out and seeing," said Spec. Antoine Flowers, assigned to a satellite control battalion at Fort Meade, while reporting for his one-week checkup. "This is the best thing since sliced bread. I can see."

Flowers said that word of the surgery is spreading quickly at the Army post in Anne Arundel County. "I have four more people in my unit trying to get it," Flowers said. "Everybody‘s trying to get it."
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Offline recceguy

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Re: laser eye surgery
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2002, 14:49:00 »
We‘ll have to see if the CF med system has any money after doing the free sex changes (sorry, Gender Re-allocation (pc)).
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Canidule

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Re: laser eye surgery
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2002, 18:15:00 »
holy ****! I was laughing pretty bad when you said that recceguy, i thought it was a joke....until i decided to see if it wasnt a joke after all....and i saw that  http://www.dnd.ca/menu/maple/vol_3/Vol3_5/entrenous_e.htm
that really isnt funny at all anymore.....what the **** is this? he wanted a ****ing free surgery so he joined the army?

Offline portcullisguy

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Re: laser eye surgery
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2002, 01:21:00 »
"... Laser eye surgery for combat troops ..."

Two steps forward...

   "... Gender-reallocation surgery for combat troops ..."

And, three steps back.
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Offline Gordon Angus Mackinlay

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Re: laser eye surgery
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2002, 20:21:00 »
Ladies and Gentlemen,

It‘s a great idea, only one problem, there is absolutely no knowledge of what the long term effects of this procedure will be.

I was talking to a old friend who is an opthalmic surgeon just before Christmas, she saying that every client who has the procedure done, has to sign the relevent legal documentation in the presence of a solicitor which relieves the surgeon of any litigation due to health problems caused by this procedure in the long term!  I rang her this morning after emailing the text to her, she saying that when at a conference in Honolulo in January, they were told that this is standard in the US, so if you go blind ect, tough you have no recompense from the US Government.

Yours,
Jock in Sydney who will stick with his glasses
Jock

Offline Soldier of Fortune

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Re: laser eye surgery
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2002, 20:34:00 »
Yes, I have been debating with myself over this issue for a while. Does anybody know if you can wear glasses if you wanted to join a SF unit or Para unit?
Maybe Canada should take a step at looking at contact lenses made for combat conditions and can be worn for days/weeks at a time. That would be a better investment than the ****in sex change.
:bullet:    Soldier of Fortune    :bullet:

Canidule

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Re: laser eye surgery
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2002, 21:04:00 »
i might be wrong but yeah you surely can be in the SF and para if you wear glasses but glasses surely doesnt help in the field, like on discovery or tlc i dont remember which 1 there was a thing about the ranger training, there was 2 or 3 guy with glasses and none of them made it to the end(i think, but anyway its not a thing about wearing glasses or not i guess) but some legion and mercenary group dont accept anyone with glasses

Offline portcullisguy

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Re: laser eye surgery
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2002, 23:58:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by Gordon Angus Mackinlay:
[qb]It‘s a great idea, only one problem, there is absolutely no knowledge of what the long term effects of this procedure will be.
[/qb]
True, the research that has been done (every surgery is another case for the doctor‘s research reports to medicl journals) only goes back 20 years, the date of the first radial keratotomy (RK).

LASIK is only about 4 years old, and PRK is about 10-15 years old.  LASIK is based on the PRK principle, but instead of lasering through the first layers of corneal tissue, they leave it intact by creating a flap with a speculum, thereby eliminating the need for a bandage lens after the surgery, and reducing the risks for over-regrowth.

My doctor also told me about the possibility of side-effects and that regrowth could occur that would leave your vision only slightly better than before.

My doctor also said that, in about 20 years (when I‘m 45 ... I was 25 at the time of surgery), I will probably need reading glasses in any event, as the lens in your eye hardens at about 45 from over exposure to UV light.

So I took the chance.  I can see great again, and I might get 20 useful years out of my eyes (regrowth occurs normally in the first week and is easy to treat with hormone drops).

My vision is 20/15, and has been since November 2000, when I had the surgery done.

Even if I end up needing glasses for reading in 10 years, I still have gotten 12 solid years of clear vision without corrective lenses, during my prime working years.
portcullisguy

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