Author Topic: Officer positions  (Read 28015 times)

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scouthern

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Officer positions
« on: December 10, 2008, 20:19:00 »
I was browsing through the forces.ca website looking at the combat arms jobs. And all the officer positions (which I am interested in) do not show any "advancement" in their career.

For example. NCM Infantry can advance to rappelmaster, sniper etc. Can an Infantry Officer ever become a sniper?

Edit: To add, can Officer's also take specialized courses such as winter warfare, jungle warfare etc.?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 20:25:19 by scouthern »

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 20:52:24 »
The short answer:

Sniper - while theoretically possible ... no
Other courses, yes, depending on your Commanding Officer's desire and the CF's need for you to have the qualification

This thread from the Infantry FAQ is a little dated, but applicable:

Life as an Army officer
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 20:55:36 by Michael O`Leary »

Offline Kebel

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 21:35:06 »
If someone could give a more detailed answer i'd be happy to read too since i'm applying for Infantry officer.
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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 21:36:09 »
There are too many variables, some combat arms officers spend over half of their career in the field units, and others spend most of their career on the staff.  It's not always by choice and very few choose those trades planning to spend a career going from desk job to desk job - but every one of those jobs needs to be done as well, and done well to support the troops in the field.



Offline Kebel

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 21:38:31 »
Can a Infantry officer get job related to intelligence during its career?
"Remember, your weapon was built by the lowest bidder" - Unknown
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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 21:41:41 »
Can a Infantry officer get job related to intelligence during its career?

Related to?  Yes if you consider an officer in a planning cell in an operational headquarters who works closely with the G2 (Int) staff to be sufficiently close..

If you mean can he/she get an Intelligence Officer's position, no, not likely.


Offline Shamrock

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 21:46:48 »
Can a Infantry officer get job related to intelligence during its career?

As Mr. O'Leary stated, but there's also occupational reassignment, in which case the former infantryman would become an intelligence officer.

Offline Kebel

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 22:04:38 »
Alright thx for the answers.

Now, back to the original topic :)
"Remember, your weapon was built by the lowest bidder" - Unknown
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either." - Benjamin Franklin
"Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward, and freedom will be defended. " - George W. Bush on 9/11

Offline Gasplug

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008, 05:07:13 »
Quote
Can a Infantry officer get job related to intelligence during its career?

There really are only two jobs that fit that description... The Battalion Int O in garrison is an infantry officer who is sent to the Basic Intel Course. The bad part about that job is that on most missions he will be replaced by a professional Int O.  The second job is that once you become a general, usually a BGen or MGen, you can become CDI for Chief - Defence Intelligence.

Good luck getting that last one!  ;D

Gasplug :salute:

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008, 10:15:53 »
Can a Infantry officer get job related to intelligence during its career?

Intelligent infantry oficers are hard to find. It gets in the way of smashing things up and generally running amok in large gangs in a disciplined fashion... which is essentially what infantry is all about a.k.a. fun.  ;D
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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2008, 11:02:50 »
At the risk of being labelled a spoil sport, I know several infantry officers who filled intelligence positions at brigade and higher levels, including at the national level.

Offline Cleared Hot

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2008, 11:27:18 »
Intelligent infantry officers are hard to find. It gets in the way of smashing things up and generally running amok in large gangs in a disciplined fashion... which is essentially what infantry is all about a.k.a. fun.  ;D

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.  He's talking about Intelligence officers not intelligent ones - two very different beasts! ;D
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 11:29:58 »
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.  He's talking about Intelligence officers not intelligent ones - two very different beasts! ;D

Ugh... me no understand too good. Sorry. Must smash things up.... drink beer  :blotto:
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Spandrel

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 10:39:56 »
...combat arms jobs. And all the officer positions ... do not show any "advancement" in their career....NCM Infantry can advance to rappelmaster, sniper etc....
specialized courses such as winter warfare, jungle warfare etc.?

« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 15:20:06 by CSA 105 »

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 11:09:03 »
Sounds about right to me too 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 15:25:00 by CSA 105 »
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aesop081

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2008, 18:35:32 »
What I essentially mean is, the occupation "developments" available to an NCM are not available to an Officer in the same occupation.

Nor should they be. The occupations are not the same.

Offline Gasplug

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2008, 03:17:54 »
Quote
Then my terminology was incorrect. What I essentially mean is, the occupation "developments" available to an NCM are not available to an Officer in the same occupation.

Scouthern,

There are only a few fields where the only course available to learn a new qualification is the same for NCMs and officers.  The specific examples I am thinking of for the Infantry are advanced anti-armour gunner, advanced mortarman and advanced reconnaissance.  We used to have the advance pioneer course but that went the way of the dodo back in the early 00s. I did that course myself in 1988 and it was exactly what I needed so that I could apply the qualifications of my pioneer platoon correctly. 

This is where I agree with CDN Aviator, the officer needs to apply the capabilities of the multiple systems he is given to command while his NMC apply the capabilities of a single system they are given to operate.

Cheers,

Gasplug :salute:

Offline Spandrel

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2008, 19:39:30 »
Commanding one of these is challenging and enjoyable... a pretty good "development", I'd say.  If you want to be a sniper, be an enlisted soldier.  If you want to command diverse groups of soldiers and a lot of combat power across the combat arms spectrum, be a combat arms officer.

It all depends where and how you want to work.

Offline Rowshambow

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2008, 19:38:19 »
I can't talk about an Infantry Officer job, but an Armoured Officer spends more time behind the desk, then behind the controls. The only "field" time we see is when we do a Brigade Ex, or build up training for a tour.

after training here is what to expect from Armoured O
1-3 years at the Regt, as a Troop Leader (if you are lucky) for 1 -2 years, the 3rd being an Administrative roll, i.e. AO for a Sqn
then posted to ? If you do Gagetown or Wainwright, you might get more field time, as you will be constantly teaching on courses, maybe some of the pers who are at the Armour School on this site can elaborate their field time, but I can tell you they are short manned and do allot of field time, more prevalent for the NCM's though!
After posting back to Regt, come back as a Battle Captain, or Sqn 2 I/C depending on your experience, mostly desk work though! Then posted again to ?
and except for courses or tours most of your time will be spent at a desk. Its the nature of the beast.
We also have Int O's at my regiment it is handled by a new Lt or 2Lt (yes Armoured) they put them through the combat int course first, but don't be fooled, it is all desk type work! except for the field (if you go) but even then you are pretty much a duty O in the CP.

Also for your knowledge, right now and for the next year, we have an abundance of young Officers, and another 24 slated for EACH Regiment next summer (we just had our career manager brief) so that is a shitload, seeing as we used to get like 5 or 6 at the end of summer from the phase 4. So because of the influx, you might not get any Troop leading time, or your Troop leading time might be spent in Wainwright, in charge of of enemy force for 6 months, like some of the people that are doing it (from all 3 Regiments) now.

So basically if a desk job is not what you are looking for this might not be the career for you. Some of the new guys are realizing that now! I mean it is cool to blow crap up, but it can be few and far between, for Armour Officers at least!
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Offline DustintheWind

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2008, 21:22:42 »
I can't talk about an Infantry Officer job, but an Armoured Officer spends more time behind the desk, then behind the controls. The only "field" time we see is when we do a Brigade Ex, or build up training for a tour.

after training here is what to expect from Armoured O
1-3 years at the Regt, as a Troop Leader (if you are lucky) for 1 -2 years, the 3rd being an Administrative roll, i.e. AO for a Sqn
then posted to ? If you do Gagetown or Wainwright, you might get more field time, as you will be constantly teaching on courses, maybe some of the pers who are at the Armour School on this site can elaborate their field time, but I can tell you they are short manned and do allot of field time, more prevalent for the NCM's though!
After posting back to Regt, come back as a Battle Captain, or Sqn 2 I/C depending on your experience, mostly desk work though! Then posted again to ?
and except for courses or tours most of your time will be spent at a desk. Its the nature of the beast.
We also have Int O's at my regiment it is handled by a new Lt or 2Lt (yes Armoured) they put them through the combat int course first, but don't be fooled, it is all desk type work! except for the field (if you go) but even then you are pretty much a duty O in the CP.

Also for your knowledge, right now and for the next year, we have an abundance of young Officers, and another 24 slated for EACH Regiment next summer (we just had our career manager brief) so that is a shitload, seeing as we used to get like 5 or 6 at the end of summer from the phase 4. So because of the influx, you might not get any Troop leading time, or your Troop leading time might be spent in Wainwright, in charge of of enemy force for 6 months, like some of the people that are doing it (from all 3 Regiments) now.

So basically if a desk job is not what you are looking for this might not be the career for you. Some of the new guys are realizing that now! I mean it is cool to blow crap up, but it can be few and far between, for Armour Officers at least!

Id like to personally thank you for destroying my dreams.
 ;D :P


Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2008, 21:35:50 »
Id like to personally thank you for destroying my dreams.
 ;D :P

From all of us, you're welcome.

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Offline DustintheWind

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2008, 21:38:20 »
From all of us, you're welcome.

Army.ca, destroying dreams by spreading the truth since 1993.    ;D



Hehe, well I always knew Officers had a large amount of desk work. I think I read at least 2/3rds of your time? 66% sounds better then the detail he gave is all :D

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2008, 21:38:46 »
From all of us, you're welcome.

Army.ca, destroying dreams by spreading the truth since 1993.    ;D



I'll drink to that





 ;D
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2008, 00:08:19 »


"In the World War nothing was more dreadful to witness than a chain of men starting with a battalion commander and ending with an army commander sitting in telephone boxes, improvised or actual, talking, talking, talking, in place of leading, leading, leading."

J. F. C. Fuller  http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/j_f_c_fuller.html

Having said that though, in the infantry you will certianly have a good opportunity to 'lead, lead, lead' which, in this day and age, means being good at fulfilling your duties in both the field and the office. And, depending on how busy your unit is, the latter will be a welcome break from the former.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Run away gun

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Re: Officer positions
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2008, 00:25:32 »
Don't be fooled about NCMs either though, while it is true that privates and corporals spend their time "hands on" at work, as they progress up the latter there is less and less "hands on" and more driving a desk. Especially once you become a SNCO.