Author Topic: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?  (Read 16548 times)

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Offline Danjanou

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2008, 13:55:44 »
And every Sapper that you ever meet will say the same thing....  ;D

.....over and over and over again ad nauseum. 8)
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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2008, 14:20:46 »
Yeah we all know you're an even older fart than Colin and I. Now go back to conducting halt parades on your Ferret. 8)

Even older than George! That's one reason I went to Ottawa, so that I would have people like ERC and OS to hang around ;D
If I were to live every day as though it were my last, the body count would be staggering

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2008, 15:41:38 »
Yeah hanging around bars with them makes even me feel like a young puppy. Tours of the CWM with you and them are great, they point out all the errors in the Boer War and Riel Rebellion Displays. ;D
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Offline time expired

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2008, 16:04:14 »
OLD SWEAT, I think you are correct as far as the number of
CF104s are concerned but the losses of percentages of aircraft
in service are comparable with the Luftwaffe,somewhere near
a quarter of the total were lost by both the RCAF and the Luftwaffe.
The Canadian pilots seemed more adept at making a Martin-Baker
exit as they had far fewer fatalities than the Germans.
Incidentally the NATO standard upgraded HAS were for the use
of flyover F14 squadron from Seymore-Johnson AFB, practiced
a couple of year in the early 80s,exercise Crested Cap I think it
was called.
                                 Regards
nothing is better for the morale of the troops
as occasionally to see a dead general
               field marshal slim

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2008, 16:40:30 »
TE

Thank you for that. Flying an aircraft designed as a high altitude interceptor low and fast is a risky business. Did the stats change after the air group converted to a ground support role?

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2008, 17:53:22 »
OLD SWEAT,I am not sure the RCAF ever used it in the interceptor role
in Europe, as far as I remember as soon as the 104 replaced the Sabre
they went to the nuclear strike role and then sometime in the late 70s
to recce and ground attack.The aircraft was very unforgiving and flying
in these latter roles must have been a great challenge to the pilots,which
explains why the pilots who flew them claim they they were the greatest
thing since sliced bread.
Concerning my last,I of course meant F15s,and the HAS I was referring
to were those in Lahr.
                                  Regards
nothing is better for the morale of the troops
as occasionally to see a dead general
               field marshal slim

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2008, 18:12:56 »
Time Expired

I am sure the RCAF never used the CF104 as an interceptor; however that is what it was originally designed to do. As I recall from the sixties there were a lot of airplanes flying real fast and real low in Germany. Our guys in the Air OP Troop used to develop permanent twitching neck trying to find the next German 104 after the lead passed just overhead, apparently without having seen the Canadian L19 chugging along at two digits of air speed.

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2008, 18:39:04 »
OLD SWEAT,yes I remember it well,4 Fd,Wksp.Ft.Chambley 63-66.I even
got a fam.ride in one of your L.19s.The Brits. told the Germans they owned
the air below 20,000ft.and if they didn't like it they shouldn't have lost the
war.Here in the south every day was an airshow, but the really low flying
was over.Now it is like living in a demilitarized zone,all the bases in the area
are closed with the exception of the French at Colmar and I hear it will close
next year.I miss the "sound of freedom".
                                            Regards
nothing is better for the morale of the troops
as occasionally to see a dead general
               field marshal slim

Offline Dan M

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2008, 20:10:56 »
Colin,

To answer your original question, neither of the maps you provided was for the airfield formerly known as CFB Lahr.  You can see it here:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lahr,+bavaria,+Germany&sll=47.74902,7.720299&sspn=0.168746,0.307617&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=47.893212,7.633781&spn=0.086901,0.153809&z=13&iwloc=addr

The map for the former CFB Baden-Soellingen is here:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Gutenberg+Oberostendorf,+Ostallg%C3%A4u,+Bavaria,+Germany&sll=47.899887,7.619362&sspn=0.084128,0.153809&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FR-s2wIdvH6jAA&t=h&ll=47.856597,10.629015&spn=0.043481,0.076904&z=14&g=Gutenberg+Oberostendorf,+Ostallg%C3%A4u,+Bavaria,+Germany&iwloc=addr

Note that the town to the north-east of the Baden-Soellingen airfield,even today, is called "Kleinkanada".

According to the book Starfighter (1991) by David Bashow the RCAF purchased 200 single-seat CF-104's and 38 dual-seat CF-104D's.  Delivery from Canadair began in 1961.  I couldn't find any details as to the final number of accidents involving the aircraft.  Hope this helps.

Dan.
An officer in The Canadian Guards should at all times, by intelligent study, conscientious application to his work and continual observation, seek to make himself so competent, so confident and so correct in all matters connected with the Profession of Arms that if he were to state in the presence of any military audience that "Pigs have wings", he would at once be both understood and believed. The wise officer, of course, will weigh all his statements carefully before he makes them. (ASAG 1960)

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2008, 23:08:02 »
Colin,

To answer your original question, neither of the maps you provided was for the airfield formerly known as CFB Lahr.  You can see it here:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lahr,+bavaria,+Germany&sll=47.74902,7.720299&sspn=0.168746,0.307617&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=47.893212,7.633781&spn=0.086901,0.153809&z=13&iwloc=addr

No, you're wrong, it's not the old CFB Lahr.  The airfield in the link that you provided is located just south of Bad Kronzingen, a community not far (about 10-15 km SW) from Freiburg which is about a half hour (if you drive slow in a German frame of reference) south of Lahr.

Quote
Note that the town to the north-east of the Baden-Soellingen airfield,even today, is called "Kleinkanada".

"Kleinkanada" used to be the PMQ patch.  If I remember correctly, when our mail was home delivered (if using a local German address and postal code) it was considered part of Hugelsheim.

The map for the former CFB Baden-Soellingen is here:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Gutenberg+Oberostendorf,+Ostallg%C3%A4u,+Bavaria,+Germany&sll=47.899887,7.619362&sspn=0.084128,0.153809&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FR-s2wIdvH6jAA&t=h&ll=47.856597,10.629015&spn=0.043481,0.076904&z=14&g=Gutenberg+Oberostendorf,+Ostallg%C3%A4u,+Bavaria,+Germany&iwloc=addr

This link also doesn't open an aerial view anywhere near Baden-Soellingen.  You may have found them but the links are incorrect.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 21:33:47 by Blackadder1916 »
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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2008, 09:20:06 »
EXSPY,That is definitely not Lahr airfield however I believe it is Bremgarten
the home of the Luftwaffe recce wing JG.52 equipped with RF4C Phantoms.
All three of these bases,Baden,Lahr,and Bremgarten,were built by the French
shortly after WW2.Baden was planned to be built right at the edge of the city,
where the Baden civil airstrip is now,there was such a protest from the citizens
of this fair city that the French military gave the German authorities 6 weeks to
find an alternative or the would start with their original plan.A few farmers were
stripped of their land and Baden Soellingen was born.
                                                   Regards
nothing is better for the morale of the troops
as occasionally to see a dead general
               field marshal slim

Offline Dan M

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2008, 11:08:10 »
Guys,

You're right.  I think the same happened to me that happened to Colin.  When you go searching on Google maps the address doesn't change from the first search made.  In other words I started my two searches from the sites that Colin had provided.  When I found Lahr and Bad-Soellingen the addresses had not changed so I just inadvertently repeated the sites that Colin had provided.

Please try this one for Lahr:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lahr+Germany&sll=48.037549,12.451522&sspn=0.006872,0.013819&g=Lahr,+bavaria,+Germany&ie=UTF8&ll=48.357846,7.848186&spn=0.054637,0.11055&t=h&z=13

And this one for Baden-Soellingen:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=kleinkanada+Germany&sll=48.037549,12.451522&sspn=0.006872,0.013819&g=Lahr,+bavaria,+Germany&ie=UTF8&ll=48.779836,8.075895&spn=0.054183,0.11055&t=h&z=13

I think it will work better this time.  I apologize for my previous error.

Dan.
An officer in The Canadian Guards should at all times, by intelligent study, conscientious application to his work and continual observation, seek to make himself so competent, so confident and so correct in all matters connected with the Profession of Arms that if he were to state in the presence of any military audience that "Pigs have wings", he would at once be both understood and believed. The wise officer, of course, will weigh all his statements carefully before he makes them. (ASAG 1960)

Offline Crimmsy

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2008, 11:29:14 »
According to the book Starfighter (1991) by David Bashow the RCAF purchased 200 single-seat CF-104's and 38 dual-seat CF-104D's.  Delivery from Canadair began in 1961.  I couldn't find any details as to the final number of accidents involving the aircraft.  Hope this helps.

Dan.


My copy of Starfighter is three provinces away in my parents' basement so I can't look it up, but I recall that it has an appendix that details the ultimate disposition of each airframe. That would probably be the most reliable source for totals. This website has a list of all ejections from 104's (and many other types of many nations) but I can't say how reliable it is. It lists eighty 104s ejected from in Canadian service. No data on it about crashes where the pilot rode it in.

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2008, 20:51:27 »
. . .  however I believe it is Bremgarten the home of the Luftwaffe recce wing JG.52 equipped with RF4C Phantoms.

Yes, it is Bremgarten, but perhaps you should have said "former home" since it was also closed as a military air base in the early 1990s.  It is now a business park.  http://www.gewerbepark-breisgau.de/en/standort/index.htm
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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2011, 16:37:59 »
Hello,

My name is Andrea  and I am working on a research project about the ghosts and hauntings at the CFB in Lahr/Germany.
From what I could see so far, there are quite a few people here who’ve been at some point stationed at that base.
I would be really grateful, if you could help me with my research by telling me about the stories you’ve heard, maybe you have even experienced something yourself what seemed to be of paranormal origin, things that you just can’t explain.
If you don’t want to publish these stories here, you can also send them to me per e-mail (andrea@tpf-baden.de) or personal message. I can assure you that no names will be mentioned and every bit of information will be dealt with confidentially.
Thank you,

Andrea

Offline my72jeep

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2011, 17:43:06 »
Guys,

You're right.  I think the same happened to me that happened to Colin.  When you go searching on Google maps the address doesn't change from the first search made.  In other words I started my two searches from the sites that Colin had provided.  When I found Lahr and Bad-Soellingen the addresses had not changed so I just inadvertently repeated the sites that Colin had provided.

Please try this one for Lahr:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lahr+Germany&sll=48.037549,12.451522&sspn=0.006872,0.013819&g=Lahr,+bavaria,+Germany&ie=UTF8&ll=48.357846,7.848186&spn=0.054637,0.11055&t=h&z=13

yes this one is lahr. I saw some of the old hunts that are still there
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Offline Spr.Earl

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2011, 03:28:59 »
Bit of trivia,
Lahr had the longest run way in all of NATO that is why all did touch and goe's on Saturday's and Sunday's. :blotto: :'(
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2011, 11:00:23 »
Bit of trivia,
Lahr had the longest run way in all of NATO that is why all did touch and goe's on Saturday's and Sunday's. :blotto: :'(

Longer than Frankfurt am Main? .........    Or just less busy?
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Which of these airbases is the old CFB Lahr?
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2011, 14:14:14 »
Bit of trivia,
Lahr had the longest run way in all of NATO that is why all did touch and goe's on Saturday's and Sunday's. :blotto: :'(
Longer than Frankfurt am Main? .........    Or just less busy?

Ahh . . . the great Canadian inadequacy game . . . measuring parts to show that we're just as good as the bigger guy.  Well, as I've tried to convince many females of varying ages over the years, it's not just length that should be taken into account when judging if "size matters".

Yes, it was commonly said (mainly by Canadians) that Lahr had the longest runway in NATO Europe Germany Southwestern Germany.  At 3000m, it probably was "one" of the longest runways in Germany that was "open only to military aircraft".  Rhein-Main (until it closed) shared use of the 4000m runways with Frankfurt Airport.  Ramstein was probably the next busiest USAF airbase, especially for heavy lift aircraft; its runways were under 2500m.  Spangdahlem's runway is about the same length (and maybe a few metres longer) as Lahr's.  While length matters, it is not the only thing.

The "only" time that Lahr received C5 Galaxys was the evening of 18 April 1991 when C5s and C141s arrived to load vehicles and personnel of 4 Field Ambulance who were deploying to southeastern Turkey (and eventually into Iraq) in support of Kurdish refugee operations.  We loaded from one of the margs on the western side of the field; the apron in front of the AMU could not accommodate a C5.  While "a" C5 was on the ground loading, the runway was closed to all other traffic because its wingspan intruded into the runway space.  There was one nervous moment for the base commander (who had come over with his son to see the aircraft while we were loading) when the C5 pilot indicated that they were having some warning lights and didn't know if he would be able to take off until they were resolved.  The base commander was concerned that the airfield could be closed until a maintenance crew and parts came down from Ramstein, possibly incurring a several hours to full day shutdown of his airfield.  The C5 took off anyway and diverted to Ramstein for the repairs.  They could easily handle multiple C5s.
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