Author Topic: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.  (Read 7011 times)

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Offline daftandbarmy

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German Duke Franz Herzog von Bayern Is Rightful King Of England

GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.

The Telegraph reports that should Gordon Brown repeal the 1701 Act of Settlement, something he is considering, the 74-year-old German will sit on the throne.

Brown sees the undoing of the Act as a way of “healing a historic injustice by ending the prohibition against Catholics taking the throne”.
 

http://www.anorak.co.uk/strange-but-true/182771.html
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Offline General Disorder

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German Duke Franz Herzog von Bayern Is Rightful King Of England

GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.

The Telegraph reports that should Gordon Brown repeal the 1701 Act of Settlement, something he is considering, the 74-year-old German will sit on the throne.

Brown sees the undoing of the Act as a way of “healing a historic injustice by ending the prohibition against Catholics taking the throne”.
 

http://www.anorak.co.uk/strange-but-true/182771.html
If Franz Herzog von Bayern takes the throne, do we have to subject the UK to the conditions of surrender for WWII?  Or do the Germans get absolved  >:D
So, there I was....

Offline Panzer Grenadier

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If Franz Herzog von Bayern takes the throne, do we have to subject the UK to the conditions of surrender for WWII?  Or do the Germans get absolved  >:D

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Offline Thucydides

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Now we just have to wait for the Stuart pretenders to show up..........

 :pop:
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline sober_ruski

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Offline ironduke57

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Interessting. Then we would not be only Pope, but also King of Britain! Fascinating!  :king: The Queen would be probably not amused. :rofl:

Regards,
ironduke57
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Offline ex-Sup

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Here's a link to a better article, complete with the family genealogy:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/07/nking107.xml
I'll be discussing this with my Gr.12 history class today. We looked at the English Civil War at the beginning of March, so it's interesting to examine what could be a huge development. I wonder how this will effect Anglicans, since the king/queen is the head of the church? I guess the title "Defender of the Faith" will no longer apply.
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Offline Strike

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Now we just have to wait for the Stuart pretenders to show up..........

 :pop:

Hey!  I resemble that remark!   ;D
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Offline Pinto

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It isn't the first time someone has tried to "undo the wrong done to Catholics," and I suspect it won't be the last.

Check out this article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Settlement_1701#United_Kingdom

The whole thing is highly recommended, but the bit linked to above details some of the reasons why Catholics are barred from succeeding to the throne and why it is not a simple matter of repealing the Act of Settlement to "fix" the so-called "problem."

Cheers!
Pinto
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Offline ex-Sup

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The whole thing is highly recommended, but the bit linked to above details some of the reasons why Catholics are barred from succeeding to the throne and why it is not a simple matter of repealing the Act of Settlement to "fix" the so-called "problem."
Hmmm, interesting. I'll be sure to include this in my class discussion in just under an hour.
I can certainly see what the concerns are from the stand point of the Church of England and how that relationship works. However, as a Catholic, I can empathize with the other side of the argument. Definitely a very complicated situation and not an easy fix. I'm curious to see what happens.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 13:01:13 »
I guess the title "Defender of the Faith" will no longer apply.

Henry VIII received the title from the Pope for his work in suppressing Protestant heresy (rather ironic, considering what happened after), and the title has passed from the Tudors to the Stuarts, the House of Orange, the Hanover's and now to the current Royal Family. In the happy event you become the Sovereign of England, you too will become "Defender of the Faith". (I am less clear if this applies should you become Sovereign of Canada).
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline ex-Sup

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2008, 13:20:21 »
In the happy event you become the Sovereign of England, you too will become "Defender of the Faith". (I am less clear if this applies should you become Sovereign of Canada).
However, as a Catholic
Well, unless they change the rules...  ;D
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Offline Jim Seggie

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2008, 13:25:13 »
What a frickin can of worms.....live and let live.
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Offline Pinto

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2008, 14:50:44 »
But establishing a correct and acceptable line of succession for something as important as the British Throne is not, and should not be, a simple exercise. Long and bloody wars have been fought over this very subject, which is what has lead us to the current situation. The line of succession for the British Throne (and the other commonwealth countries, including Canada), is relatively secure. If you want to know, this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne

Lists everybody who could possibly inherit the crown, based on the Act of Settlement of 1701; from Prince Charles (#1) to Countess Charlotte of Hohenau (b. 1917), great-granddaughter of Prince Albert of Prussia (#1391).

There are some monarchies who, because of their own succession rules and concerns, are having succession crises because they don't know who to pass the crown to; Japan is one of these.

Cheers!
Pinto
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Offline RangerRay

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Offline Yrys

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2008, 02:21:55 »
Quack journalism

"You would think that a basic level of research on a fundamental constitutional point would reveal that any repeal of the Act of Settlement could not be done so unilaterally by the United Kingdom, but would require the unanimous consent from the whole of the Crown Commonwealth, according to the terms agreed to under the Statute of Westminster 1931"
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Offline ex-Sup

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2008, 08:20:59 »
"You would think that a basic level of research on a fundamental constitutional point would reveal that any repeal of the Act of Settlement could not be done so unilaterally by the United Kingdom, but would require the unanimous consent from the whole of the Crown Commonwealth, according to the terms agreed to under the Statute of Westminster 1931"
Nonetheless, it does raise some interesting questions, especially from a historical point of view. I don't expect anything to change anytime soon, but it does raise a number of "what ifs." Made for some interesting discussion in my history class yesterday.
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Offline geo

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2008, 09:30:50 »
In the end, the Queen remains on the throne AND there are no pretenders who are claiming "right" to the English throne.

Unless a pretender steps forward, this discussion has no relevance.
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Offline ex-Sup

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2008, 11:23:59 »
this discussion has no relevance.
Whether anything happens or not, there can't be any harm in some discussion and dialogue. Isn't this the point of sites like this one?
There are several historical, as well as social issues tied into this story. I know that I always encourage my students to talk about issues and expose themselves to other ideas and opinions.
Anyway, my $0.02 worth.  :)
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Offline ghyslyn

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2008, 11:54:07 »
Even if a legitimate successor to the throne of England arrives and attempts to overthrow the current monarchy, it wont work. We have seen historically that governments and rulers are heavily reluctant to lose ANY power or control whatsoever in any way that it can be percieved. Perfect example of this is the land, signed by contract to be given to the Métis people, which they legitimately have rights to, and never got.
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2008, 13:47:06 »
In the end, the Queen remains on the throne AND there are no pretenders who are claiming "right" to the English throne.

Unless a pretender steps forward, this discussion has no relevance.

EXACTLY!!  Mods. please remove every single irrelevant thread on the site... should clear out about 80% of the forums.



oh, forgot to add   :D
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline ex-Sup

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2008, 13:58:38 »
EXACTLY!!  Mods. please remove every single irrelevant thread on the site... should clear out about 80% of the forums.

 :rofl:

Too funny...too true! Maybe the same can be said for life in general.  :)
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Offline sdimock

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 01:30:40 »
In the end, the Queen remains on the throne AND there are no pretenders who are claiming "right" to the English throne.

Unless a pretender steps forward, this discussion has no relevance.

I'd hate to have our family called up ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymoke)   :threat:    ;D
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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2008, 01:54:44 »
ex-Sup,

It's too bad teachers like yourselves don't spend more time on real Canadian history, as you do trying to defend your 'rightful' place in history.

Quit trying to explain such an archaic system as the British crown progression. Get back to teaching our children about Vimy & Dieppe. What THEIR heritage is and what THEY have to be proud of. They don't hear how we fought in all the conflicts and World Wars, yet we expect them to try and understand Afghanistan, from an NDP teacher's point of view (and I'm not saying that's you).

Our kids today don't even get taught how parliment works, yet we expect them to vote sensibly.

The school system is failing us, as far as turning out functional citizens. It starts in the schools and with the TEACHERS!

Canada is losing it's identity and self worth, and the decline is starting in the education system.

The teachers are the front line.


Sorry for the rant, nothing personal.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 07:53:36 by recceguy »
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Offline Yrys

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Re: GOD save Franz Herzog von Bayern new King of England and Scotland.
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2008, 02:04:07 »
In the happy event you become the Sovereign of England, you too will become "Defender of the Faith". (I am less clear if this applies should you become Sovereign of Canada).

Aren't they both the same ?

Line of succession for the throne of Canada equal line of succession for the throne of England...

Act of Settlement 1701

Quote
In Canada, where the Act of Settlement is now a part of Canadian constitutional law, Tony O'Donohue, a Canadian civic politician, observed that the Act of Settlement 1701 explicitly excludes Roman Catholics from the throne and the Queen is Supreme Governor of the Church of England, requiring her to be an Anglican. This, he claimed, discriminates against non-Anglicans, including Catholics, who are the largest faith group in Canada.[7] In 2002, O'Donohue launched an ultimately unsuccessful court action that argued the Act of Settlement violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. His case was dismissed by the court, which found that as the Act of Settlement is part of the Canadian constitution, the Charter of Rights does not have supremacy over it. Also, the court pointed out that while Canada has the power to amend the line of succession to the Canadian throne, the Statute of Westminster stipulates that the agreement of the governments of the fifteen other realms that share the Crown would first have to be sought if Canada wished to continue its relationship with the other Commonwealth Realms.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 02:11:40 by Yrys »
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