Topic: Ferret Anti-sniper system

[kilekaldar]

Sounds great if it works
any comments??




Canada deploys Ferret system to Afghanistan
Sharon Hobson JDW Correspondent
Ottawa

The Canadian Army has installed the Ferret small-arms detection system on its General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada Coyote 8 x 8 reconnaissance vehicles in Afghanistan.

MacDonald Dettwiler & Associates (MDA) received the C$1.6 million (US$1.3 million) contract for 13 Ferret systems in February.

Master warrant officer Dave Blanchard from the Directorate of Land Requirements, and a civilian technician from General Dynamics Land Systems, completed the installation in theatre in April.

Although the Department of National Defence (DND) had originally planned to put the contract out to competition, it decided to sole-source because MDA "was the only company with a product that met the technical requirements and the required delivery date", says DND spokesperson Liz Hodges.

The army had hoped to have the systems installed in time for its rotation of troops into theatre in August 2004 but the procurement was delayed due to negotiations between MDA and the government's purchasing arm, Public Works and Government Services Canada.

The Ferret system was jointly developed by one of the military's research labs, Defence Research and Development Canada Valcartier, and the Halifax branch of MDA.

It can be vehicle-mounted or situated as a static land-based system. It is able to detect small-arms fire by locating the source and providing bearing, range, elevation, trajectory and calibre of the projectile.

An audio alarm alerts the occupants of the vehicle that they are being shot at and the system determines bullet miss-distance.

The Ferret system also keeps a digital log of all small-arms fire events for who-shot-first post-analysis investigations.

The army purchased the vehicle-mounted system and has installed it on 10 of the command and remote variants of the Coyote, and is keeping one system in theatre as a spare.

A further two are being used for training in Canada.

Blanchard said a 'needs' analysis may be done "but there's no plan at present to get a dismounted variant of the Ferret".

He said the system "is designed to work in urban areas and in the open, and it should detect out to about 1 km" depending on the acoustics and weather conditions.

Field-testing both in Canada and in Afghanistan showed that "it works the way it's supposed to".

The army is, however, working with MDA "to adjust some of the algorithms and the warning system so that it becomes a faster reacting machine, because right now you have to analyse the hand-held terminal to see where the hostile fire's coming from", said Blanchard.

"They're currently working on a voice warning system", which will change the audible tone warning to "a voice which will say warning, shot fired, 2 o'clock [for example], and there will be 12 cardinal points on there [the hand-held terminal]."

Blanchard said the army also has "another connector that we want to hook up to the GPS, that will [translate the algorithm] ... and actually give you a 10-figure grid to know where the shooter came from".

[Lone Wolf AT]

What about echo, sound at night etc?

[MdB [3]]

Sounds great if it works
any comments??

I'm pretty sure it works if it's deployed. DRDC aren't a bunch of newbies.

Edited spelling.

[Infanteer]

I thought we were deploying Ferrets to Afghanistan, with George Wallace going over as SME....

[Baloo]

My question is, if the system was designed for urban and open areas, does that mean it would not be as effective when trying to pinpoint trajectories in mountainous areas, like much of Afghanistan ends up being? I realize that there won't be Coyotes in the mountains per se, but I wonder (along with CFL) about some of the limitations it might have. If the settings aren't ideal, what kind of range or feedback are you looking at?

[pbi]

I guess we'll develop answers to Baloo's questions as we go along, which is how it usually goes with new gear. Seems like a great idea to me, especially as AFV crews have a hell of a time acquiring SA fire over the noise in their headsets, engine sound, etc. And, as US Army experiences at NTC have shown, a couple of marksmen can quickly thin out uncautious "hatches up" crew commanders.

Cheers.

[MdB [3]]

Here's the press release from Canadian Army Website News section:

Ferret out the shooter
Thursday, June 09, 2005

OTTAWA, Ontario â ” Canadian soldiers deployed on operations will now have better situational awareness and protection with the introduction of the Small Arms Detection and Localization System (SADLS), commonly referred to as the Ferret.

Ferret, a vehicle mounted acoustic system, produces real time data by detecting and localizing small arms fire. Using acoustics from the rifle's muzzle blast and shock wave, the system indicates, to the operator, the direction of fire, including bearing, elevation and range, within seconds of the shot being fired.

The system also determines near miss distance and the calibre of the projectile, including fire from suppressed weapons. More importantly, all information captured during a particular event is recorded to an inboard computer for later analysis.

Upgrades available in the future
Two upgrades on this system will be available to soldiers in a near future. The first upgrade will offer a voice warning capability as apposed to the current audible tone. The second will allow a global positioning system receiver to provide a 10-figure grid to the shooter.

Defense Research Establishment Valcartier and MacDonald Dettwiler & Associates Ltd. developed the SADLS from the need to identify and verify the origin of small arms fire during peace support operations in the Balkans.

The technology has been fully tested and is now completely integrated into the Coyote's highly sophisticated surveillance suite.

As part of the Army's continuing efforts to put soldiers first, a technical team from Ottawa deployed to Afghanistan to install the Ferret and work with soldiers on the ground to develop the necessary Tactics, Techniques and Procedures (TTPs) of the Ferret.

Currently used in Afghanistan
The Department of National Defence has procured a total of 13 Ferrets and 11 are currently in service with the Kabul Multinational Brigade (KMNB) Reconnaissance Squadron in Afghanistan. The two other systems will remain in Canada to prepare future contingents on the TTPs of the Ferret.

Initial indications are that the Ferrets are providing crews much better situational awareness and, it is hoped, will significantly enhance both crew safety and force protection for the KMNB Reconnaissance Squadron.

Article by Master Warrant Officer Dave Blanchard

Using acoustics from the rifle's muzzle blast and shock wave [...] The system also determines near miss distance and the calibre of the projectile, including fire from suppressed weapons.

Well, I don't think the echo would be a problem since the mic is precise enough to litrally 'hear' the noise from the muzzle, even though it's a suppressed weapon. If it can identify the calibre when the bullet pass by, let's say 1 meters away, it's pretty damn precise and I don't think terrain, environmental or weather condition would change the performance as to hinder it totally.

Imagine this thing couple with a GPS, a comp, a secure comm system and an artillery battery. The gunners would acquire target position within seconds and would fire as soon as the gun is in position. Thus, even if the sniper isn't anymore in LOF after firing, the gunners could eliminate him anyway.

[Vigilant]

I was just thinking about what would happen if someone had a lucky shot and actually shot the Ferret?

[TCBF [3]]

Then, the techs would have to replace whatever part was broken.

Tom

[Vigilant]

Think how funny it would be! What would it say if it got shot?

Also wondering if it is self-calibrating?

[TCBF [3]]

"Think how funny it would be!"

- Other than maybe water balloons, nothing is funny when it breaks.

Tom

[aspiring officer]

Think how funny it would be! What would it say if it got shot?

"Ouch"? 

[George Wallace [4]]

I thought we were deploying Ferrets to Afghanistan, with George Wallace going over as SME....

Been a while since I've seen one of those little critters.   Cute.   I believe they are good a keeping other vermin away/in control.   Not too much of a SME on them though.   Perhaps TCBF has some time on........Tom?

My youngest brother asked me a few years back, when he was working for a small company in Collingwood that was developing the sensors and programs for cars to sense pot holes and rough roads and adjust the shocks accordingly, if the CF was interested in sensors to detect incoming small arms.   I figured that with systems like the Super Dart that they used to have in Gagetown and the various laser detection systems that it was doable, but that we would have to fit our vehicles with an array of antenna to create the fields that would detect those rounds and thereby be adding more to the 'clutter' on top of our vehicles.   

I would be interested in seeing this system.   Perhaps he had something to do with it, way back when.

[TCBF [3]]

Ferret Scout Car?  Nope.  Half of our TQ3 went Ferret, our half - me and Jim Catterall( who just left this table ten minutes ago) went Lynx.  Four months after that, five guys from the Ferrets went to Gagetown to become Centurian drivers.

Clutter on the turret.  True, but it does look like something we could hang our socks on to dry after washing them in the Troop Leader's canteen cup.

Tom

[STA Gunner]

I've seen the Ferret system, and worked with a larger, similar system.  It is an excellent system, and echoes, shadow and ambient noise are all filtered out.

It will work in all matters of terrain, and for bonus, the SA fire does not have to be aimed at you.

I think it is a step in the right direction for our force protection.