Topic: Int Op trade tell me more and more reg force please

[navy_man]

I am going to be doing a remuster to int op 111 as soon as humanly possible...Wed is the BPSO appt....but what I need to know are some more specifics about the trade.
Are there specialty areas?

Are my chances better if I switch elements as well?

Where's the most likely posting?

Whats the promotion rate like?

Is it a truly a stressed trade?

Can I hope for overseas deployment 1 every 2 years or so?(I like to go away, my wife doesn't but the money's good and so's the pride)

Can someone please please help me. I want in and I want in bad....I'm a NAv Comm.

To answer I know the basics of the trade and I have my 4 yrs+ under my belt.

B

[Acorn]

Here're a couple of Reg Force answers:

Are there specialty areas?  Yes - Imagery Interpreter is probably the best known. There are other specialty courses, Canadian and foreign, that may be available to you.

Are my chances better if I switch elements as well? That'll be determined if you're accepted. If the Branch needs more Army uniforms, you'll be asked to switch. If you think an Army uniform will help you (it might if deployments are high on your list of things to do - but be careful what you wish for) you can ask. The Branch is streaming environmentally now, so you may find yourself keeping the sailor suit without any option.

Where's the most likely posting? Can't say. It depends on where Cpl/LS are needed at the end of the QL5A.

Whats the promotion rate like? Too fast.

Is it a truly a stressed trade? Well, on a certain level, yes. We've been short 30-40 people at the Sgt level for at least 15 years (briefly eased by the closure of CF Europe, but quickly recovered by expansion). We sometimes have trouble filling Cpl and MCpl positions due to the speed of promotion.

Can I hope for overseas deployment 1 every 2 years or so?(I like to go away, my wife doesn't but the money's good and so's the pride) Depends on where you're posted. A brigade or LFA posting guarantees at least one deployment in every 2-3 years. Some of the higher HQs or units also get deploymenst.

Just so you know, selection has been made for the next QL5A (in the Fall) so the earliest you could expect to get a course is next Spring.

Good luck.

Acorn

[navy_man]

thanks for the help.

When are the specialties available, at the 6 level or above or just after 5's?

Also what can I do to increasse my chances?

[George Wallace]

One suggestion would be to take a Cbt Int Crse.  In some cases, this has lead to further Int Crses and OT.  Timing is the thing.  If there is a push on for more Int Ops, your chances will increase.  No matter what, the Cbt Int Crse will still give you a little bit of a leg up in the process, over others without experience.  It may lead to an Int Posn at your Unit, that may give you a few 'points' towards an OT, depending on you abilities.  Predicting how the OT process will progress at any one time is a truly imprecise art.

[Acorn]

As George said, a Combat Int course would help, if you were Army. It's been a recruiting tool we've used before. Unfortunately the Navy doesn't have an equivalent. The only thing that might increase your chances would be to take a shore posting with Athena or Trinity, though I don't know if there are NavComm positions there - they tend to use the sensor operator folks.

Specialties come up at all levels. Some are more likely as you advance, and some are better to get into early.

Acorn

[silver]

Hey, I'm an FCS Tech currently posted to Base Maintenance in Gagetown. Recently found out that the eligibility requirements for COTP had changed to QL 4 qualified, which I am. I will also finally have my 4 years in September making me eligible for an OT under the COTP this year. I went for Int Op (obviously, s'why I'm posting here) as I've always had an interest in the trade, which has been recently reinforced through researching the trade further. The wonderful Int WO at the Tactics School here even gave me an hour to talk/ask any questions I might have.

This is all great but then my warrant pulled me into his office (after getting my memo and application) just to talk and he told me my career manager could shut this down on me - if it even gets that far - as he can choose whether to allow people out of the trade or not based on me NOT actually being QL 5 yet. I'm FCS which is currently a red trade, but it IS open out at the same time..

My question is: Who actually has the power outside my unit to say I can't OT based on my QL level (seeing as I DO currently meet the criteria) The CM? CFSTG? Someone in Ottawa? Just trying to clear this up as to where that power lies.

Also, the Fall course is currently loaded? That's what the Tactics School WO said but he wasn't sure..

[0tto Destruct]

Hey Acorn,

With regard to selection, have you heard anything about the 111 selection board allowing reserve int ops to bypass the selection board and carry on straight to the reg force. Is this contingent on a viable reserve QL5 they're trying to build?

Also, For res int ops who have their 6A's and component transfer, are there any guidelines on how soon they will regain their rank?

Cheers,

 

[aesop081]

Hey, I'm an FCS Tech currently posted to Base Maintenance in Gagetown. Recently found out that the eligibility requirements for COTP had changed to QL 4 qualified, which I am. I will also finally have my 4 years in September making me eligible for an OT under the COTP this year. I went for Int Op (obviously, s'why I'm posting here) as I've always had an interest in the trade, which has been recently reinforced through researching the trade further. The wonderful Int WO at the Tactics School here even gave me an hour to talk/ask any questions I might have.

This is all great but then my warrant pulled me into his office (after getting my memo and application) just to talk and he told me my career manager could shut this down on me - if it even gets that far - as he can choose whether to allow people out of the trade or not based on me NOT actually being QL 5 yet. I'm FCS which is currently a red trade, but it IS open out at the same time..

My question is: Who actually has the power outside my unit to say I can't OT based on my QL level (seeing as I DO currently meet the criteria) The CM? CFSTG? Someone in Ottawa? Just trying to clear this up as to where that power lies.

Also, the Fall course is currently loaded? That's what the Tactics School WO said but he wasn't sure..

The BPSO in Gagetown will tell you if you are eligable or not for OT.  I was in gagetown as well when i remustere and the BPSO's office there has some good folks working.  Your unit is obligated to process your application for OT wether they support it or not.  Only the BPSO can kill your application in Gagetown...after that its the selection boards in Borden that can do that.  My advice to you is make sure of the criterias for COTP ( i remustered last year and you needed QL5A)...and be very suspicious of what you chain of command tells you !

[silver]

AES OP: Thanks that's what I thought but just wanted someone to re-inforce it I guess..
And yeah, it is QL4 now for all COTP's (unless otherwise stated, ie. SAR Tech, Flight Engineer, etc.) just changed from being QL5 sometime this year.

 

[Acorn]

As far as I know the Int Branch still requires QL5A for remuster. Can you post a ref for the change from QL5 to QL4? I assume a CANFORGEN, what date?

If your trade is Open for remuster out they can't stop you, as far as I know.

JavaMan,

You won't skip selection, ever (even if 6A qualified). The selection board may allow you sto skip a course (i.e. if you're Res 6A qualified, you may be able to skip the 5A, now that the latter is environmentally streamed). Until there's a viable Res 5A course though, I wouldn't expect to skip the reg 5A.

Of course, we need a valid OS, then valid QS etc. The Branch has run it's courses on waivers for years.

Acorn

[0tto Destruct]

Acorn,

Gotcha. Gee, that kinda sucks. I'm doing my 6A's next month (just finishing up my PLQ-Land now), and plan to remuster to reg force Air Force/Navy sometime next year. I guess that means I have to start from scratch. At least I'd keep the PLQ.

Here's another question: If a reg force army Int Op under the new system switches elements, would they forefit their rank?

Thanks

 

[Acorn]

Switching elements doesn't cause loss of rank, only switching trades. Transfer from Res to Reg is not a remuster either, even if you wind up in a differnet element. For example, if you decided to CT to Reg as a Res Int Op, you would submit your request, your file would go before the merit board for selection, and your qualifications would be taken into account. It may be determined that you don't need a portion of the 5A, but if you wanted to wear, say, a Navy uniform (or if the selection decided they needed more Navy Int Ops) you may skip te common phase, and only have to do the Navy Environmental phase.

Keep in mind that everything should be prefaced with "may" and "might." There are no guarantees.

Acorn

[0tto Destruct]

I see. Is the 6A a purple course that all elements take together, or is it environmentally streamed as well?

Cheers

[Acorn]

At the moment Reg 6A is not environmentally streamed.

Acorn

[Steve]

I've been reading through the intelligence threads in this subforum and have noticed that a few people have mentioned things like "depends what aspect of intelligence appeals to you most" and "pick that route and go for it"

I am curious, I haven't seen it mentioned it before; what are the different aspects and routes in the intelligence field? I was under the assumption that it encompassed a bit of everything generically but was not aware that there are specific/specialist like routes to take.

Can someone please enlighten me here about this whole thing?

[silver]

As far as I know the Int Branch still requires QL5A for remuster. Can you post a ref for the change from QL5 to QL4? I assume a CANFORGEN, what date?

CFAO 11-12, found here: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/011-12_e.asp

I also went to a BPSO open house just to confirm this before I began the process, and after the good Major checked his most recent CFTOs it was official: you only require QL4 to apply for most all COTPs at this time.

Also, as a point of interest I've decided to wait until at least a little while after my 5's to OT. Just thought about it quite a bit and bounced the pros and cons off Niner at home for a while before coming to the conclusion to give my current trade a bit of real world time before jumping ship especially as I leave for my 5's at the beginning of August (6 months more TD ain't so bad either!!!). ;P

I am curious, I haven't seen it mentioned it before; what are the different aspects and routes in the intelligence field? I was under the assumption that it encompassed a bit of everything generically but was not aware that there are specific/specialist like routes to take.

Can someone please enlighten me here about this whole thing?

Steve,

Without actually being in the trade I can give you all the sources I used to find info on job specifics:

Occupation Specialty Specification (OSS) booklets - In line with the whole MOSART thing currently happening you can find OSS's on the Intranet, basically they break individual trades down into sub-trades (ie. the Int Op one has Image Analyst, Targeteer, Humint, etc) listed with a little more detail on each sub-job

CFSMI Website: not much there, mostly just info on upcoming courses. But it does have links to recommended (required?) reading before you go on your QL5 (example here: http://www.ops.forces.gc.ca/jointDoc/docs/jointIntelligenceDoctrine_e.pdf)

The Chief of Defense Intelligence (CDI) homepage: Don't think it's accessible outside the DIN (at least I can't find it right now). Has info on the various Int orgs in the CF with lots of interesting info.

Actually there's not much else available on the trade... talk to a local Int Op face to face if you can so you can actually have a real conversation about your concerns. PSO, etc etc.

That's about it.. I tired and gotta get the cranky rugrats off to bed, 30 degrees just doesn't agree with them yet.. =(

[Acorn]

The CFAO mentions MOC selection standards in addition to the minimums required under the CFAO. I have known very few exceptions of non-5A applicants being accepted into Int, but that was generally under special circumstances. It doesn't stop you from applying, but if you don't have two bones on your slip-on you won't be attending an Int Op QL5A any time soon.

Int sub-specialties are a bit weird, in that most int ops will drift in and out of them with various postings. There are other Int-type trades though, such as the 291 folks (EW/SIGINT), but they're separate trades completely.

In addition, the 5A course is now "environmentally streamed," which means you will get a core phase, and then an environmental phase depending on where your first posting is slated. This could mean a change of DEU. The intent is to have one specialize in providing int support to either the Army, Navy or Air Force as required. If you end up posted to a different environment you'll attend the necessary environmental phase before taking up your position. That's the theory, at least.

Acorn

[custodes]

Right - to provide some detailed information.

I have been initimately involved in the process of writing trade specifications for the Int Op trade and am involved in Int trg and can provide some "straight answers."

First - the Occupation Specification for the Int Op trade requires that you be 5A qualified in your currect trade - that is you must be a Cpl. In the past two years some Ptes have slipped on to the course, however we have now set the record straight with the agencys that selected those people.

Both the 5A and the 6A courses are environmentally streamed - you go back to purple at the 6B level. This does not mean that you may not be "purplely" employed at lower rank levels - just that you will primarily be assigned within your environmental element at those lower rank levels.

You can request to be granted equivalencies for previous int-related training or experience that may enable you to miss out on various elements of basic training - but do not expect too much to be granted  unless you have extensive intelligence-related experience. In fact, unless you have a great deal of specific experience, I can out-and-out tell you that equivalencies will not be granted.

We will accept 6A qualified personnel (I remustered after 4+ years as an Infantry Sgt). You will have to take a reduction in rank to Cpl. However, you will find that we tend to treat our Cpls a bit differently than other trades because many of them have taken rank reductions. The part that hurts the most is the reduction in pay (trust me, I know). However promotion is fast (sometimes too fast for particular individuals!) - I have just had two of my subordinates made up to WO with only 6 years in the trade.

[gelan]

I'm a former 3 RCR infantry soldier and plan on re-enlisting as an Int. Op. What should I be prepared to encounter, time-wise for the Int-Op course in Kingston? I can't find this answer anywhere on these forums, so I would be very appreciative of non-flaming replies. Thanks a lot fellas!

P.S. How long is BMQ/ SQ good for? I've been out since August 2005, do any of you know if I'll still have to go through that crap again?

Thanks a bunch!

[commo_dude]

The INT QL 5 course is 14 wks long. 9 in the common phase and 5 in the element specific phase.

Your qualifications are good for 5 yrs after getting out so you are in luck.

Good luck.

[spud]

The INT QL 5 course is 14 wks long. 9 in the common phase and 5 in the element specific phase.

Your qualifications are good for 5 yrs after getting out so you are in luck.

Good luck.

I REALLY wish I had known Int Op was going to be open to direct entry, I would have investigated it much further. How long since it was "opened up"?

potato

[George Wallace]

I REALLY wish I had known Int Op was going to be open to direct entry, I would have investigated it much further. How long since it was "opened up"?

potato

And where did you get this impression?

If you would have read the post you would see that he is a Trained Infantryman.  A Combat Arms Soldier.  One of the desirable Trades that they like to 'poach' from.

[spud]

And where did you get this impression?

If you would have read the post you would see that he is a Trained Infantryman.  A Combat Arms Soldier.  One of the desirable Trades that they like to 'poach' from.

I'm sorry George, I don't understand, which impression...direct entry?

[George Wallace]

I'm sorry George, I don't understand, which impression...direct entry?

Yes!  How did you come to this conclusion with the evidence provided? 

I REALLY wish I had known Int Op was going to be open to direct entry, I would have investigated it much further. How long since it was "opened up"?

potato

You have created a false impression from your 'analysis' of his statement:

I'm a former 3 RCR infantry soldier and plan on re-enlisting as an Int. Op. .............

............. I've been out since August 2005, ............

Perhaps you are better off elsewhere after skipping this post.   

The INT QL 5 course is 14 wks long. 9 in the common phase and 5 in the element specific phase.

Your qualifications are good for 5 yrs after getting out so you are in luck.

[gelan]

Thanks George and commo_dude.

Those are the exact answers I needed!