Author Topic: 'It's time to consolidate NDHQ' & 'DND to take-over Nortel Campus' (Merged threads)  (Read 90507 times)

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Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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*COFF*CFBCHILLIWACK*COFF*CFBCALGARY*COFF*  Poor NDHQ muffins.  The deal we were all offered was "move to Edmonton or get out, we don't care".  Suck it up, buttercup.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

If a million people do a stupid thing, it's STILL a stupid thing.

Dimensions will always be expressed in the least useable term, velocity for example, will be expressed in furlongs per fortnight.

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats

 “Look here, Mars! Look here, Mars! I am Titus Pullo! These bloody men are my gift to you.”

Offline Occam

    Oskie wee wee!!

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NDHQ. Think Toronto's self-centred fixation.....only with uniforms

Not all of us chose to be here, and many of us aren't of sufficient rank to have a self-centred fixation about anything.

I'm not against a move to the Nortel campus.  Hell, it would mean my job is one helluva lot easier since I wouldn't have to travel to 35 different sites to find out someone has moved a computer on their desk and tried to stretch a 10 foot fibre cable to go 11 feet.  People posted to Ottawa who would be working at the Nortel campus would naturally buy homes which are a convenient commute.  The problem is the people who are already here, who bought homes in places like Orleans under the impression that they'd be working downtown, and all of a sudden are faced with a commute across the city.  The slap in the face is the reduced demand for homes in the areas where we now live, and consequent devaluation.

Home equity assistance is available to those who are being moved out of depressed markets.  Under a worst case scenario, one would hope that if Orleans residents get hammered on a spiralling real estate market, that the government will step in with HEA - considering DND caused the spiralling market in the first place by consolidating in Kanata.

*COFF*CFBCHILLIWACK*COFF*CFBCALGARY*COFF*  Poor NDHQ muffins.  The deal we were all offered was "move to Edmonton or get out, we don't care".  Suck it up, buttercup.

DND completely shut down operations in those locations.  Apples and oranges.

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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Not all of us chose to be here, and many of us aren't of sufficient rank to have a self-centred fixation about anything.

I'm not against a move to the Nortel campus.  Hell, it would mean my job is one helluva lot easier since I wouldn't have to travel to 35 different sites to find out someone has moved a computer on their desk and tried to stretch a 10 foot fibre cable to go 11 feet.  People posted to Ottawa who would be working at the Nortel campus would naturally buy homes which are a convenient commute.  The problem is the people who are already here, who bought homes in places like Orleans under the impression that they'd be working downtown, and all of a sudden are faced with a commute across the city.  The slap in the face is the reduced demand for homes in the areas where we now live, and consequent devaluation.

Home equity assistance is available to those who are being moved out of depressed markets.  Under a worst case scenario, one would hope that if Orleans residents get hammered on a spiralling real estate market, that the government will step in with HEA - considering DND caused the spiralling market in the first place by consolidating in Kanata.

DND completely shut down operations in those locations.  Apples and oranges.

Not true.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

If a million people do a stupid thing, it's STILL a stupid thing.

Dimensions will always be expressed in the least useable term, velocity for example, will be expressed in furlongs per fortnight.

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats

 “Look here, Mars! Look here, Mars! I am Titus Pullo! These bloody men are my gift to you.”

Offline Occam

    Oskie wee wee!!

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Not true.

Could you elaborate on that a little?   ;D

If there's still a military presence at either of those locations, I don't know what it is.

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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Never heard of the ASU at Chilliwack?
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

If a million people do a stupid thing, it's STILL a stupid thing.

Dimensions will always be expressed in the least useable term, velocity for example, will be expressed in furlongs per fortnight.

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats

 “Look here, Mars! Look here, Mars! I am Titus Pullo! These bloody men are my gift to you.”

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    is back on the ice. YAY!!

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If this looks like its going to happen then I'm snatching up some houses in Kemptville really quick.

Hey, Old Sweat,.....
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Occam

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Never heard of the ASU at Chilliwack?

Actually, I hadn't.  I stand corrected.  My impression was that when CFOCS left town, there was nothing left.  Assuming Wikipedia is correct about CFSME and 3 PPCLI also leaving in 1997, how many pers are still left at the ASU?

If this looks like its going to happen then I'm snatching up some houses in Kemptville really quick.

Hey, Old Sweat,.....

The line forms behind me.   :P

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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Actually, I hadn't.  I stand corrected.  My impression was that when CFOCS left town, there was nothing left.  Assuming Wikipedia is correct about CFSME and 3 PPCLI also leaving in 1997, how many pers are still left at the ASU?

The line forms behind me.   :P

There are about 200 reg, and a metric butt load of res people jogging in and out of Chilliwack.  There were a few Engineers in Chilliwack before the exodus, too... 1 Combat something something... wikipedia could screw up a wet dream.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

If a million people do a stupid thing, it's STILL a stupid thing.

Dimensions will always be expressed in the least useable term, velocity for example, will be expressed in furlongs per fortnight.

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats

 “Look here, Mars! Look here, Mars! I am Titus Pullo! These bloody men are my gift to you.”

Offline 57Chevy

    widower.

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Maybe so......lets check it out.
There must be something going on over there :nod:
From wikipedia:

ASU Chilliwack has responsibility over several military training areas. These areas are often used by Regular Force units from 1 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group, Reserve Force units from Mainland British Columbia, some units training for deployment to Afghanistan, and as well as Cadets.

ASU Chilliwack maintains ranges and training areas for use by it dependencies, as well as visiting units.

Vokes Range
Slesse Creek Demolition Training Areas
Columbia Valley Training Area
Trail Rifle Range
Stone Creek Training Area
Vernon Military Camp
OPSEE Training Area
Chilcotin Training Area
Vedder Mountain Training Area
Richmond – Armoury and transmitter site

 :salute:

Offline MCG

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All,
Let's stop the Chilliwack tangent.  The regular force presence did effectively up and leave.  The base closed, but some of the propertie was retained for a new military purpose.  The little ASU that remains is there to support primary reserves in the area and send recovery should somebody breakdown while passing through.

In the end, these microscopic details have no relevance on the current possibilities for NDHQ consolidation.

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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The point was, people are inconvenienced by the company all the time.  Don't like it?  Get out.  That's all we got.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

If a million people do a stupid thing, it's STILL a stupid thing.

Dimensions will always be expressed in the least useable term, velocity for example, will be expressed in furlongs per fortnight.

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats

 “Look here, Mars! Look here, Mars! I am Titus Pullo! These bloody men are my gift to you.”

Offline Occam

    Oskie wee wee!!

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The point was, people are inconvenienced by the company all the time.  Don't like it?  Get out.  That's all we got.

There's inconvenienced, and there's financially hammered on your home sale.  One is okay, the other is not.

Offline George Wallace

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Things that come to mind.......No Cost Posting........Unit is moved to a new location, but pers cannot move location of F&E.  Move from Orleans to Kanata/Bells Corners/Stittsville/Carlton Place/Carp would be 40 to 100+ km.  Travel distance on a good day from East end of Orleans or Rockland to Moodie Drive approx 45 min to an hour.  During Rush Hour, and when the OC Transpo Light Rail lines are being built on the Transitway that travel time will be a min of one hour, maxing out at perhaps three.  OC Transpo service to a low service area will be reliable only during "Peak hours" -- don't hold any hope of reasonable service during off peak hours.
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Offline Occam

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I'll be a long while before any light rail project is completed.

Just for sh*ts 'n giggles, I put my address into the OC Transpo travel planner, and put Lab 5, Nortel Carling as the destination.  I then set 0700 as the "must arrive by" time.

Leave house @ 0456
Route 130 @ 0501
Route 95 @ 0526
Route 96 @ 0541
Route 182 @ 0555
Arrive Lab 5 @ 0627

Yeah, that ain't happenin'.

Offline Old Sweat

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While the whole proposal is based on a story in the local paper and may never come to pass for all sorts of reasons, I ran the route from Kemptville to Shirley's Bay, which I think is past the Nortel Building, in my handy Microsoft route planner. The elapsed time by road using Highway 416 is 41 minutes.

Maybe the folks putting up the new mall here with Staples, relocated existing IGA, Scotiabank, Shoppers and Canadian Tire and our second Timmies as well as Walmart, TD and BMO were onto something.

Offline Occam

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There's nothing in the original article which would offer anything in the line of proof, but it does say that the purchase could be announced as early as Monday (tomorrow).  It certainly sounds like a fait accompli.

Offline 54/102 CEF

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While the whole proposal is based on a story in the local paper and may never come to pass for all sorts of reasons, I ran the route from Kemptville to Shirley's Bay, which I think is past the Nortel Building, in my handy Microsoft route planner. The elapsed time by road using Highway 416 is 41 minutes.

Maybe the folks putting up the new mall here with Staples, relocated existing IGA, Scotiabank, Shoppers and Canadian Tire and our second Timmies as well as Walmart, TD and BMO were onto something.

The mall builders are on to something - Urban Sprawl - be surprised if they`d let DND drive their planning.

Any move is do-able - City should mandate cars off the roads inside a say 10 km radius - or dedicate a lane east and west. As it is - urban commuting is 95% cars vs 5% Public transport - just look at the fools who park at Louis Stand Around.

In addition - why not max out the existing infrastructure - get 2 shifts into all govt locations vs 7-3 ---- that means 6.5 hours at the desk from 06 - 1800. Can be done and if tfc on the roads in the region is any indication - many in civvy world are living that reality. DND should 2. That won`t happen and neither will Nortel.


You can visit me when I retire to the Island of Sayonara - but if the tide goes out - you go too - OK?

Offline George Wallace

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There's nothing in the original article which would offer anything in the line of proof, but it does say that the purchase could be announced as early as Monday (tomorrow).  It certainly sounds like a fait accompli.

And as I said earlier in this topic, I have heard rumours of a super complex being built north of Gatineau, so all we really have is "The Rumour of the Day".  The building I work in is supposed to be demolished in 2013.  We heard those rumours for the past several years.  Each year a new one.  No one has found a place to move us, so again I'll believe it when I see it. 

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Offline George Wallace

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I'll be a long while before any light rail project is completed.

Just for sh*ts 'n giggles, I put my address into the OC Transpo travel planner, and put Lab 5, Nortel Carling as the destination.  I then set 0700 as the "must arrive by" time.

Leave house @ 0456
Route 130 @ 0501
Route 95 @ 0526
Route 96 @ 0541
Route 182 @ 0555
Arrive Lab 5 @ 0627

Yeah, that ain't happenin'.

Time to buy an Express Pass.    ;D
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Offline Occam

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Time to buy an Express Pass.    ;D

I have an Express Pass.  It's what gets me from my house to Tunney's using one bus, in 42 minutes.  Unfortunately, none of the above are Express routes.   :(

Offline Lex Parsimoniae

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Not everybody will be moving to Nortel, should it happen.  The Ottawa Citizen notes that the department will continue to operate National Defence headquarters in downtown Ottawa.  Construction on LSTL II has been ongoing for the last 2 months - 2200 new folks are coming to LSTL II with a move in date of 2012.  Hopefully this will reduce NDHQ from almost 40 locations across the National Capital Region to less than a handful. 

Offline MCG

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The point was, people are inconvenienced by the company all the time.  Don't like it?  Get out.  That's all we got.
There's inconvenienced, and there's financially hammered on your home sale.  One is okay, the other is not.
Many on this site have often (and rightfully) pointed out that "the company" should also think of the people.  In the various base closure examples, the military pers were all given paid moves to thier new places of work and the civilians would have been offered paid moves or they would have been entitled to union won "work force adjustment" benefits.  In the case of relocating NDHQ, the workforce also needs to be part of the consideration.  Maybe not a go/no-go factor, but certainly a plan to mitigate hardships should be on the books.  Conceivably, everyone east of "the split" at hwys 417 & 174 could be given a 4 year window to opt into a paid relocation to the west side of downtown. 

Let's  not forget that this is a federal government department, and we cannot do anything without a collection of ministers assessing the potential impacts on local economies.  If this move would "hammer" one side of the city, then the government would insist on some sort of plan to make-nice (such as encouraging the sub-way with federal dollars).

The first HUGE hurdle is to get the Government go change a policy that says 25% of each and every major government department or agency is in Québec. Unless DND is allowed to be exempted then a relocation will not, because it cannot, reap all the benefits it should.
I once proposed (some what sarcastically) that the solution to a consolidated NDHQ was to build an island in the centre of the Ottawa river with foot bridges connecting the parking lots on either side of the river.  The 25% policy could be satisfied, all political interests could be appeased, and NDHQ could operate under a single roof (or at least on a single campus).

A proper, full, relocation to Moodie Drive – with space to spare for e.g. large Project Management Offices and for nearby offices for e.g. contractors – can save time,  money and people and can make day-by-day staff work more efficient and effective.

But, if the relocation is incomplete then it may waste more than it saves.
This is the critical "if."  Should a Moodie Dr campus simply serve to consolidate all the little scattered offices, then it will likely induce more harm than good.  There is already an inordinate amount of salary wasted in travel and wait times on the NDHQ shuttle service.  Adding another 60 min round trip will not help productivity nor communication within the headquarters.

... as an asside, I would also hope the messes follow wherever a consolidated NDHQ goes.  I know most seem emotionally attached to historic buildings, but a failure to follow NDHQ to a new location would solidify irrelevance to still serving members. 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 10:24:25 by MCG »

Offline Pusser

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Is there no one who is excited at this possibility?  I know in my case it will actually reduce my commute and make things much easier.  But then again, when I chose the location where I wanted to buy a house, I considered where I wanted to live, not where the easiest commute was.  On that issue; however, one should realize that if thousands of people are now going to be going a new location, OC Transpo will adjust its routes and schedules accordingly.  It wouldn't make economic sense for them not to.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline George Wallace

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..........  On that issue; however, one should realize that if thousands of people are now going to be going a new location, OC Transpo will adjust its routes and schedules accordingly.  It wouldn't make economic sense for them not to.

Do you have that much faith that economic or common sense will come into play?      >:D
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Offline captloadie

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Other than the civilian work force, shouldn't the rest of the CF expect to be rotating in and out of Ottawa? Wouldn't this mean that, as far as commuting, you'd only be inconvnienced for what, 1 year or two, before being posted out?  >:D

I'd be snatching up any apartment buildings or hotels in the area to take advantage of the new IR's  ;D