Author Topic: CANFORGEN on Pay and PIL  (Read 384085 times)

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Offline AirDet

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #575 on: April 10, 2013, 15:42:41 »
For those of us who are taking 50% our PIL has been processed at the unit and it will be in the bank at the end of this month.   :)

That's exactly the sort of thing our people would love to her from the CofC. People just want to know that the system is moving forward.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #576 on: April 10, 2013, 15:43:35 »
He would have received his severance for his 28 years of previously-paid severance upon release from the Reg Force, no ?

Yes - I'm just pointing out that it's not the 28-year pension that disqualifies him, it's the prior receipt of severance for those 28 years.


Pedantic, but precision is important.
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Offline DAA

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #577 on: April 10, 2013, 16:28:41 »
That's exactly the sort of thing our people would love to her from the CofC. People just want to know that the system is moving forward.

Well not really love to hear.  It only leads to the banter of "Why did they get their's and we haven't got ours?"  Which I am sure will be the next round of complaints.

Things could be much much worse!  They could have just said "Severance entitlements are frozen.  But don't worry, your accumulated time will be paid out when you retire."

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #578 on: April 10, 2013, 16:54:46 »
So?  Imagine my surprise to find out that I am only entitled to 2 out of the 8 years as a Reservist, because I already have a pension for 28 years service as a Reg.  30 years is the max number that anyone is entitled to.......And yes, recceguy is probably correct in his deductions of whom is responsible.    >:(
Don't understand the "So?" part of your post. You received a severance for your 28 years and are getting an additional 2 years, you haven't really lost anything (although Im sure you disagree because of the 6 years over the 30 year cap). In my example those 5 years are totally lost money that should be included in the calculation.
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Offline DAA

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #579 on: April 10, 2013, 17:01:38 »
Don't understand the "So?" part of your post. You received a severance for your 28 years and are getting an additional 2 years, you haven't really lost anything (although Im sure you disagree because of the 6 years over the 30 year cap). In my example those 5 years are totally lost money that should be included in the calculation.

I can "one up you" on that one.  I asked that specific question, broken service, service that involved component transfers, etc.  My interpretation of it was that it wouldn't be counted but was told it would all be counted,

And that was from someone "well" up the food chain and in a position to determine that.

Can you say "blind leading the blind".....    :facepalm:

Offline ARMY_101

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #580 on: April 10, 2013, 17:03:02 »
That's exactly the sort of thing our people would love to her from the CofC. People just want to know that the system is moving forward.

The system is moving forward. I've posted regular updates from the PIL team as they've become available...

Offline Brihard

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #581 on: April 10, 2013, 17:41:17 »
The system is moving forward. I've posted regular updates from the PIL team as they've become available...

Yup, but you're not the CoC, and most troops don't spend time here.

Believe me, your updates are appreciated, even if most of us probably don't think to say thanks for the info. But at the same time, this information should all be coming clearly, forthrightly, and through proper channels so that all the troops are receiving the same messaging.

There will be MANY troops who have random issues delaying their payout beyond simply being in the queue. However I'd contend that exceptionally few of those issues will be of such a nature that there oughtn't be *policy* uncertainties at play that would preclude quick, accurate answers to 'will this or that service count?'

Me, I'm all for 'shut up, leave them alone, let them process applications', however I accept that I'm probably in the patient minority...
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Offline recceguy

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #582 on: April 10, 2013, 22:05:07 »
Sooooooooooo, I heard if you wait to take it all, with or without a tax deferral, upon retirement, it is guaranteed to be in your hand within six weeks.

That's the rumour I want clarification on.
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Offline DAA

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #583 on: April 11, 2013, 08:28:49 »
Sooooooooooo, I heard if you wait to take it all, with or without a tax deferral, upon retirement, it is guaranteed to be in your hand within six weeks.

That's the rumour I want clarification on.

Is it possible to receive it that quickly?  Yes.  Would it actually happen that quickly?  Probably not.   The timeline for payout on retirement is dependant upon how many files the Release Section in Ottawa (DMCA) is working on at any given time.  They usually try and shoot for 8-12 weeks which I believe is their "optimal" target but I have seen it go as long as 6 months or more in some instances.

Offline pross182

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #584 on: April 11, 2013, 09:06:15 »
Sooooooooooo, I heard if you wait to take it all, with or without a tax deferral, upon retirement, it is guaranteed to be in your hand within six weeks.

That's the rumour I want clarification on.

If you elect not to take the PIL then the payment you receive at release is severance and follows the same procedure as a normal severance payout. It doesn't go to the PIL team in Ottawa.

Offline pross182

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #585 on: April 11, 2013, 09:09:45 »
I can "one up you" on that one.  I asked that specific question, broken service, service that involved component transfers, etc.  My interpretation of it was that it wouldn't be counted but was told it would all be counted,

And that was from someone "well" up the food chain and in a position to determine that.

Can you say "blind leading the blind".....    :facepalm:


http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/sg-ig/sg-ig/pi-as-eng.asp

Points 6,7,8

Also processsing timelines can be found http://admfincs.mil.ca/rppo-brpl/intro_e.asp?sel=rppo-brpl But it's an intranet site.

I don't know about your ORs but ours attached a printout of the Q&A irt PIL to our election forms so everyone has a reference.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 09:12:42 by pross182 »

Online George Wallace

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #586 on: April 11, 2013, 12:17:10 »
If you elect not to take the PIL then the payment you receive at release is severance and follows the same procedure as a normal severance payout. It doesn't go to the PIL team in Ottawa.

And your source for this info is?

There is no Severance.  You have three choices for you PIL; one of which is to collect it on RELEASE. 
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #587 on: April 11, 2013, 12:27:04 »
And your source for this info is?

There is no Severance.  You have three choices for you PIL; one of which is to collect it on RELEASE.

No, PiL stands for "Payment in lieu of severance".  If taken at release, it's severance, not PiL.  Still gets audited, though.

It is an important distinction: there are certain tax provisions for severance payments that do not apply to a payment in lieu.  For me, the key consideration is that for severance an individual may transfer up to $2000 per year or partial worked in 1995 or before into RRSPs, above and beyond the RRSP contribution limit. 

Thus, by taking a portion as severance, I will be able to defer taxes on that amount, and likely draw it our slowly, over time, once my income has been reduced, so my marginal tax rate will be less, and any growth will be shielded from tax until withdrawn.  Taking it immediately would have had it taxed at my marginal rate, and I really wasn't in the mood to see 40%+ disappear.
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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #588 on: April 11, 2013, 12:36:39 »
Thanks for the clarification.....Wish that this whole matter was clearly presented to us so we wouldn't be doing all this now....If I wanted to be an accountant, I wouldn't have joined.
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Offline AirDet

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #589 on: April 11, 2013, 17:43:12 »
There we go. That's exactly what I hoping for. People are talking about what's really on their minds.

Thank-you George, DAA, Brihard, Army101, etc.

As George so aptly put it, "Wish that this whole matter was clearly presented to us so we wouldn't be doing all this now....If I wanted to be an accountant, I wouldn't have joined."

There's little doubt in my mind that there are still tonnes of questions out there.
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Offline DAA

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #590 on: April 11, 2013, 17:49:22 »
As George so aptly put it, "Wish that this whole matter was clearly presented to us so we wouldn't be doing all this now....If I wanted to be an accountant, I wouldn't have joined."

There's little doubt in my mind that there are still tonnes of questions out there.

Now if we actually presented something to you in a clear and understandable fashion, how the heck are we going to impress the senior management and get "Mastered" PERs when we have to step in to help you?

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #591 on: April 12, 2013, 10:46:13 »
I, and the rest of the 50%ers here on board will be seeing the money on the end month pay.  And holy crap did they ever take a arm and a leg for tax etc.  The good news is that it maxes out the CPP & EI contributions now instead of the fall so I'll see a bit more money each pay in that respect.

Offline AirDet

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #592 on: April 13, 2013, 21:31:54 »
DAA, you're a man with purpose.  :nod:

I might just take a page from your play book.
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Offline kratz

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #593 on: April 13, 2013, 21:39:55 »
DAA, you're a man with purpose.  :nod:

I might just take a page from your play book.

Here I thought Montgomery Scott popularized DAA's suggested method.  ;D
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Offline winks2872

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #594 on: April 14, 2013, 09:00:53 »
I dont know if it's of any value to anyone but last week in the NCR we received an email stating that only 3148 PIL applications were received in the NCR out of a possible 15,000. That number is much lower than I think anyone was expecting. I'm thinking the payments will happen much faster than expected, that being said i'm not expecting it in any time frame and will be pleasantly suprised one payday :)
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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #595 on: April 14, 2013, 09:03:23 »
Why a max of 15,000 and what is NCR?
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Offline Canadian.Trucker

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #596 on: April 14, 2013, 09:07:36 »
Why a max of 15,000 and what is NCR?
NCR = National Capital Region
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Offline winks2872

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #597 on: April 14, 2013, 09:12:22 »
Why a max of 15,000 and what is NCR?

I should have expanded on that. there are apx 15,000 pers posted within the National Capital Region, only 3148 PIL applications were received from those pers. The remainder having not made an election will receive payout as severance at retirement / release.
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Offline hamiltongs

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #598 on: April 14, 2013, 09:40:59 »
I should have expanded on that. there are apx 15,000 pers posted within the National Capital Region, only 3148 PIL applications were received from those pers. The remainder having not made an election will receive payout as severance at retirement / release.
To answer the question of "why", I have a hunch that if you drilled down into the numbers you'd find that a lot of people posted to the NCR are relatively close to retirement, say perhaps within 10 years, and being late-career officers and senior NCOs would have already maxed out their RRSP contributions. In that case, it would make sense for them to wait to take the payment as non-taxable severance at retirement.

But you're right that PiL uptake has been less than expected: I heard the number for reservists nationally was sub-50% as of the week before deadline.

Offline pross182

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Re: CANFORGEN on Pay
« Reply #599 on: April 14, 2013, 11:05:44 »
I dont know if it's of any value to anyone but last week in the NCR we received an email stating that only 3148 PIL applications were received in the NCR out of a possible 15,000. That number is much lower than I think anyone was expecting. I'm thinking the payments will happen much faster than expected, that being said i'm not expecting it in any time frame and will be pleasantly suprised one payday :)

If NCR is treating this in any way like our regimental orderly room, they're taking their time with it to ensure everything is in order so they don't get sent back. Our PIL folders are complied by the Sqn Clks, forwarded to a MCpl and Sgt who both vet them before having them photocopied and mailed off. Under 1/3 of ours have been sent out.